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Unraveling Sleep Struggles:  Expert Solutions for Peaceful Nights

Welcome to the Momentum Podcast, where we dive into the mindset behind overcoming everyday challenges.

 

In this episode, we tackle a universal struggle: sleep. If you're a parent battling bedtime battles or navigating the ups and downs of sleep training, know that you're not alone. It's time to remove the shame and recognize that all problems, including sleep issues, stem from our thoughts.

 

Join me as I sit down with Dee Ubhaus, a pediatric sleep consultant and mother of four, to unravel the mysteries of children's sleep and discover practical solutions for the whole family.

Dee, a mom of four and former Jersey girl turned Denver resident, is passionate about helping families achieve better sleep. Her journey began with her own sleep struggles, leading her to become a certified sleep guru. With her CLC program underway, she aims to support moms from prenatal to toddlerhood. Her expertise comes from navigating the sleep challenges of her own children, turning her into a bona fide sleep expert while juggling the chaos of motherhood. When she's not momming, Dee enjoys food, reading, the beach, and embracing the occasional late-night couch potato session.

 

Understanding the Mindset:

 

Mindset is important when it comes to addressing sleep challenges. By removing shame and recognizing that all problems are thought problems, parents can approach sleep issues with clarity and compassion.

 

Common Sleep Struggles:

 

From difficulty falling asleep to frequent night awakenings, Dee shares insights into the common sleep struggles parents face with their children. She reassures listeners that these challenges are normal and solvable with the right approach.

 

The Role of Sleep Training:

 

Dee discusses when and how to implement sleep training techniques, emphasizing the importance of consistency and patience. She offers practical tips for parents to create a bedtime routine that promotes healthy sleep habits for their children.

 

Personal Experience:

 

As a mother of four, Dee shares her own journey navigating sleep issues with her children. She provides empathy and understanding, drawing from her experiences to offer relatable advice to listeners.

 

Key Takeaways:

 

Sleep struggles are common among families, but they can be overcome with the right mindset and approach.  All problems, including sleep issues, are rooted in our thoughts. By reframing our mindset, we can approach challenges with clarity and compassion.  Consistency and patience are key when implementing sleep training techniques. Creating a bedtime routine and setting boundaries can help establish healthy sleep habits for children.

 

Practical Tips:

  • Do a sleep audit:  Get out a journal and start documenting sleep patterns.  What time did baby/child go to sleep (for naps and bedtime).  What time did they wake up?  Pay attention to how long they are asleep and awake for.  Did they sleep through the night?  How many times throughout the night did they wake up.  Consider contributing factors like what did your day look like?  Were you on the go, in and out of the car frequently so baby wasn't able to get in an uninterrupted nap? Look at it from the lens of a nonjudgmental observer.  Think of yourself like a scientist using the scientific method to solve a problem.  Come up with a hypothesis to your sleep struggle, test it out, and then document your findings.  If it works, keep doing it. If not, make another modification and try again.  For example, maybe try putting baby down for nap or bedtime 30 minutes earlier, or maybe its time for baby to drop a nap.  Try it out, document your results, and then evaluate your findings to help you come up with your own individualized solution (remember, all babies/children are different, and what works for one may not work for another!)

  • Consistent wake times:  Have you heard the age old adage "never wake a sleeping baby".  This may be true for newborns (lol, remember that episode of Friends?), but around 4 months you can start introducing consistent wake times to help get your little one on schedule.  It can be a benefit to have a regular waking time for the day within 30 minutes day to day.  So for example if you wanted to initiate a consistent wake time of 7 am, if your little one isn't awake between 7-7:30am, you wake them up.

  • Nursing at start of routine.  For all you mamas out there nursing your baby to sleep (my hand is up on this one!), consider nursing at the beginning of the bedtime routine so that your nursing sessions don't turn into a sleep aid (something that baby requires in order to fall asleep).

  • Gradually remove support.  Spinning off of the previous point, gradually remove any support/sleep aid you have used thus far, this way it is not such a shock to your little one, making it an easier transition for them and you.  For example, if your kiddo is used to you laying in bed with them in order to fall asleep, start sitting at the edge of their bed for a couple nights, then gradually move to a chair, then closer to the door, etc. until you eventually make it out of the room before they are 100% in slumberland. (This one takes a lot of patience and I will admit this is something that I've tried, but also have been inconsistent with.  I think it does take patience on the parent's part, which for me is difficult when I'm so tired at the end of the night).  Dee suggests that as you are removing the support, to make sure you are taking care of your child's emotional needs by providing extra love, hugs, maybe an extra book or song at the end of the night.

  • Communicate with your partner.  Dee emphasizes the importance of communicating with your partner.  Make sure you are both on board with what you want the result to be.  For example, are you both ok with co-sleeping, or not?  See if you can come to a compromise and be respectful of each other (after all, these babies wouldn't even be here if it wasn't for the 2 of you).  Include your partner in the sleep routine.  If possible, see if your partner can go into the child's bedroom in the middle of the night and/or take turns doing this, giving each other opportunities to get in a full night's rest.

And Mama, if you are exhausted and at your wit's end, please pay attention to what I have to say here:

Don’t worry about what other people are doing.  When you hear other people say their kids are in bed at 7, door closed and that’s the end of it.  The temptation might be to get frustrated. You might be tempted to feel like it shouldn’t be this way, this shouldn’t be so hard, everyone else can get their kids to go to bed and stay in bed at 7, there must be something wrong with me, there must be something wrong with my child, or I must be doing it wrong.

 

Those are all what we in the coaching world call “thought errors”, friend.  And I want you to just take a minute, pause, take a deep breath and question these thoughts.

 

It’s not true that everyone else’s children go to bed at 7 willingly.  In fact, I have a friend whose son doesn’t go to bed until 9 and another friend whose daughter isn’t asleep until about 10.  For me, my kids for the most part are asleep by 8:30-9, but there are times when they are up past 10pm!

 

This idea that you can do the bedtime routine, read a book, tuck your kids in, give them a kiss, shut the lights off, close the door and then that’s it, is a nice idea, but this is just not everyone’s reality. 

 

It can be such a source of frustration for many people.  And it adds another layer of stress when we think that this is how it should be, and everyone else’s kids are in bed by now, what’s wrong with me?  What am I doing wrong?  What’s wrong with my kids? My kids are so difficult.  

 

Think about how you feel when these are your thoughts.  Frustrated?  Angry? Annoyed? Maybe inadequate if you think you are doing something wrong, or that everyone has this thing figured out but you.

 

But take a second to think about how you act when you feel frustrated, angry or inadequate?  

 

My guess is you might lose your cool and yell, you may even threaten to take things away, you might say things you don’t mean and will regret later.  Or maybe you snap on your partner and blame them, which then snowballs into an argument.

 

And ultimately, what you're NOT doing is finding a solution because you can’t think logically and find solutions when you’re in this heightened state. 

 

So my suggestion, and what has worked wonders for me is to find a way to think about this differently.

 

Ask yourself, “is it true that I’m the only person experiencing this “problem”?

 

The answer is no.  The mere fact that we have a podcast episode dedicated to this topic and the fact that there is such a thing as a sleep consultant should give you a clue that this is a shared problem for many people.

 

So next, ask yourself, “What if this wasn’t a problem? How would I think, feel, and behave then?”

 

Maybe you’d be a lot more relaxed at bedtime.  And this more relaxed energy will rub off on your children.  It’s going to totally shift the energy in your home.

 

And when you are more relaxed, it’s easier to fall asleep right?

Another thing I would say is to anticipate and plan for the obstacles ahead of time.

 

Schedule some time in your day when you are at your best, when your energy is at its peak and you are thinking clearer, schedule time to sit and think about what are the things that commonly happen to delay bedtime.

 

For instance, are your kids frequently coming out of their bedrooms and asking for a snack?

 

Ok, well then you can plan for that and maybe you add a little snack to the bedtime routine.

 

Or maybe you try some of the things that Dee talked about today.

 

BUT I would argue that more importantly, plan ahead of time for how you typically feel at this time of day and DECIDE ON PURPOSE how you WANT to feel and how you want to show up, EVEN when things don’t go as planned, because let's be honest, they probably won't!

 

Say to yourself, I’m gonna be tired, but what I don’t want to do is yell and get worked up.  So when I start to feel my body tense up, I’m going to plan to pause, take 3 deep breaths, and think about what I’m thinking about that’s causing the frustration.

 

Because the truth is, it’s not the circumstance of your kids coming out of their room or not going to sleep that’s causing the frustration, it’s your thoughts about it.

 

So you could think, of course they’re gonna do this. Why wouldn’t they? This is completely normal given their age.  And this isn’t going to be something that lasts forever.  They're not going to be 20 years old and coming into my bedroom at night.  This is just a phase, it’s the season we are in right now.

 

And from that place, you’ll be in a more calm state of mind and you will be able to handle yourself and the situation in a way that you can feel good about.

 

And what I want to offer is, too, think of what your end goal is.  Is the ultimate goal for everyone to get more sleep?  If so, then DO WHAT YOU GOTTA DO. Do what works for you and your family and forget about what others are doing.

 

Remember, you're not alone in this journey. Reach out for support and guidance, and remember to prioritize self-care as you navigate the ups and downs of parenting.

 

Thank you for tuning in to this episode of the Momentum Podcast. I hope you found valuable insights and practical strategies for tackling sleep challenges with your children. Remember, by shifting your mindset and approaching sleep with compassion and consistency, you can create peaceful nights for your entire family. Stay tuned for more empowering discussions on overcoming everyday obstacles and unlocking your full potential.

Resources Mentioned In The Show
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  • Not sure if you're ready to make the commitment, but curious what life coaching can do for you?  Allow me to help you unlock what's standing in between you and the life you truly desire.  Why can't you get yourself to do the things you know you need to do?  Or stop doing the things you know are not aligned with your goals or your best self?  Click here to sign up for your FREE 30 minute mini session and I promise I will get you some good help!  So what are you waiting for?  Turn on an episode of Bluey for the kiddos and hop on a call with me!  It's obligation free and it could be the one decision that changes it all for you!

  • Want to give yourself the gift of MORE TIME?  Get AT LEAST 5 hours back/week by doing a time audit.  Don't know where to start?  I've got you covered! For access to my FREE TIME AUDIT TOOL click here.

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TRANSCRIPT

Hello and welcome to another episode of the Mom-entum Podcast.  The show dedicated to inspiring, uplifting and empowering women on their journey through motherhood.  I’m your host, Tanya Valentine, thank you so much for being here.

 

Now the topic of today’s show is sleep.  We are talking about how you can make sure you and your family get more of it. This topic can be somewhat controversial but I want you to keep an open mind as you listen today.  I know that feeling far too well of “I’ve tried everything and nothing works”  The problem with this is that it leaves you closed off from finding solutions that are available to you.

 

I can say that this used to be a hot topic for me.  Getting my kids to sleep at night used to be the cause of much frustration.  But I can honestly say, after some years of experience and after receiving hours of coaching around it, I am at peace with it.  I can remember saying to my coach, well if I could just get my kids to fall asleep earlier, and if they would just stay in their room at night, then my life would be so much easier. Then I would have time to myself at the end of the day.  I would have time to do what I want to do, watch a movie with my husband, or read a book.  But the reality was, this just was not my reality.  And this was something I had to face and stop resisting.  Because the more I resisted and fought against it, the more problems I would cause.  I can remember my coach saying so what?  Why is this a problem?  And I remember at first being like, are you kidding me?  Of course this is a problem.  I’m tired, they're tired, and we need sleep, like it’s so important to your health.   But what I didn’t realize at the time and what I came to learn was that it was the way I was thinking about it that was the problem.

 

What we think is the problem is almost never the problem.  We create the problem in our brain with our thoughts.  And that’s great news.  Because, guess what. You can choose your thoughts.

 

You get to decide what you want to believe.  Recognize that most of your thoughts are going on underneath the radar.  You think approximately 60 thousand thoughts/day. It’s IMPOSSIBLE to be aware of all your thoughts playing in the background. 

 

But it’s important for you to understand that each thought causes a feeling, and your feelings drive your behavior, and your behaviors and actions determine the results in your life.

 

This is a universal truth.

 

So start being more mindful of your thoughts.  This is what I can tell you helped me find peace and put an end to the bedtime battles.

 

It can help by meeting with a therapist or coach.  Someone who has a neutral perspective, and who would be able to talk with you, and better identify these thoughts, most of which are subconscious, that are causing the problem.

 

This is what I do with my clients and I’m more than happy to help you with this.  I’m still offering free 30 minute coaching sessions, so take advantage of this!  It could be the one decision you make today that makes all the difference.

 

What I learned from Tony Robbins is that we get our musts in life.  Anything we believe is a MUST, we make sure it happens.  For example, eating and sleeping. For most people, but not all, eating and sleeping are musts.  We make sure that no matter what, we get ourselves something to eat and we sleep at night.

 

 What I realized through the power of coaching was that getting my kids in bed at 7 with the lights off, door closed, and them staying in their own bed all night, was not a must for me.

 

When I took the time to get honest with myself I realized that I actually enjoyed sleeping with my kids.I enjoyed snuggling with them.  I realized that there is going to come a time when I’m going to miss this, when they won’t want to snuggle with mom anymore.  

 

So what I’m trying to say is, if you think bedtime is a problem for you and your family, don’t beat yourself up about it.  I know your struggle all too well, trust me.  And what I’ve learned is that if you stop trying to fight it, if you stop telling yourself “it shouldn’t be this way” or “it shouldn’t be this hard”, you will find so much PEACE, I know I have. So just keep this in mind as you listen to today’s episode.

 

So, If the term “bedtime battles” sounds like something that is all too familiar for you right now and you have been on the hunt for a solution to the sometimes hours long struggle between you and your kiddos, then this is the show for you.  

 

I’ve got Dee Ubhaus on the show and she is a certified pediatric sleep consultant.  She’s going to help us with some very tangible, tried and true actions we can take to help the whole family get a better night’s rest!  Ready to dive in? Let’s go! Without further ado, here is my interview with Dee Ubhaus.

Tanya: Okay, alright, hi dee! Welcome to the show. Thank you so much for being here.

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Danielle Ubhaus: Thank you so much for having me today.

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Tanya: Yes, I'm so excited. Thank thank you so much. It's such a privilege, a privilege to have you on so to start. Can you just share a bit of your story with our audience, and then we'll dive into what everyone wants to know. How the heck

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Tanya: do we get our kids to sleep.

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Danielle Ubhaus: Absolutely so. I'm dee I'm originally from New Jersey, but I live in Colorado. I have 4 little girls ages, 2 through 8. So I kind of banged them all out in 5 years. And it really just opened my eyes to sleep. And what moms really need? I was kind of always the go to for my friends as soon as I started having kids of being like, hey, what do I do about sleep? Because

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Danielle Ubhaus: for the most part I had good sleepers. My first was amazing. My second is kind of really where I started to dive in because she was terrible in every aspect of a newborn I slept on the couch for 4 months. And then I basically decided that I couldn't do it anymore. And I decided to sleep. Train her, and it changed my life. Oh! And I say this, while my oldest barely had to be sleeping, she was doing long stretches by herself. You know you always sleep, train in some way.

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Danielle Ubhaus: and I am a firm believer in that, because if you let them cry for an extra 2 min, or if you sue them in some way, you are sleep, training them and learning.

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Danielle Ubhaus: having them learn how to sleep on their own but my second, really like, threw me curve ball. And so after that, when we were pregnant with our third, we were moving across the country away from family and our support system. And so I dove deep into make sure that I didn't have that same postpartum experience, because there was no way I could do it without help.

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Danielle Ubhaus: And then it she turned out to be a solid sleeper. And then I had my fourth, who taught me so much about lactation and nursing and sleep because she actually nurse until she was 21 months, and I didn't sleep. Train her until she was about 20 months old, so

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Danielle Ubhaus: I think it really all comes together for me in the way, in the sense that there's no perfect time to sleep train. It's kind of when you're ready. But also when it's affecting you so much. And so I really just wanna help moms understand that there's no shame in sleep training. There's no one method for sleep training. There's so many responsive ways that you can do it. And I just wanna help as many moms as I can, because sleep deprivation is not a right of passage and motherhood. Past the 4 month point.

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Tanya: I love that, and I totally agree with everything that you're saying, and I love

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Tanya: how I totally agree with this just when you're ready, and there's how that there's no one method, and you just decide when you're ready.

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Danielle Ubhaus: Yeah. And I think some people can be ready at 4 months. And that's okay. And I think that sometimes there's a lot of shaming around it being like, Oh, well, your kid still needs to eat, but maybe they don't. Every child is different. And then there's some parents that can tolerate waking up multiple times a night until their kid is 3.

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Danielle Ubhaus: And I work with a lot of toddlers, and they're just like their parents are just over it, and I don't blame them, because at 3 they can sleep, and it's completely different methods I use with babies and with toddlers at the same time, because a toddler is a little person, and you wanna be responsive to that, and you want to encourage them

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Danielle Ubhaus: along the way. You don't want to just shut the door and be like deal with it. So I think that there's

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Danielle Ubhaus: it's when you're ready, and a lot of times, you know. People say, well, that's so selfish. But it's really not because you want to be the best mom that you can be. And you can't be the best mom, if you're waking up multiple times a night, and you're so sleep deprived that you're just like a zombie mommy during the day, and it's just not fun for you, and then you feel guilty, because then you're laying on the couch while they're trying to nap, or whatever that may be. But whenever you're ready is when it's time.

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Danielle Ubhaus: and that's why, like I have friends who work with children who are 7, 8, 9, and 10 years old.

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Danielle Ubhaus: and

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Danielle Ubhaus: there's no shame in that.

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Danielle Ubhaus: But maybe sometimes the people just aren't as informed as to what they can do because cry it out gets so much

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Danielle Ubhaus: heat. But then also, it gets so much

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Danielle Ubhaus: like. That's what people think of when it's sleep training, and that's not sleep training. It is sleep, training.

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Tanya: Controversial. Yeah, it's so controversial. And I do want to talk about cry it out later on. But go ahead. Go ahead.

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Danielle Ubhaus: Well, what I was gonna say was, you know, I think that there's so much shame either way, and you know you get the people who are so pro sleep training that are like you need to sleep, train at 4 or 5 or 6 months, and like, that's it. And then you get the people that are like sleep. Training is damaging your child, and it's you get the 2 extremes, and that's where you hear it the loudest.

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Danielle Ubhaus: And there is so much in the middle that people don't realize. And I think that that's something I'm trying to normalize because there is so much in the middle, and like the middle, is the gray area of parenting and sleep. Training is the middle of parenting.

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Danielle Ubhaus: And there's so it's so true, too, because I hear so many people from the other side of it who are like, Well, I never sleep. Train, my kid. I'm like well in some way you did, because soothing in a different way, without feeding or without

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Danielle Ubhaus: nursing, or whatever it may be, is sleep training, because you're soothing in a different way, like you're teaching them another skill. And so I think you know, it's just sleep. Training isn't bad, and there you're not damaging your child. But I just want people to know that whenever you're ready is when it's time, and there are so many methods to use that feel good to you.

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Danielle Ubhaus: because let's be real kids don't have a memory until they're like 5 or 6 years old.

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Danielle Ubhaus: so like they're not going to think back a year ago. Be like, well, you let me cry for 5 min, or you made me sleep in my own bed like they're not. Gonna remember that it's all. And you want to be the best mom. And this is really something that you're doing for you.

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Tanya: And every and everybody really.

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Danielle Ubhaus: Great, because you want to be happy with your partner at the same time, and like you want to have open communication. And, like, you know, there's

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Danielle Ubhaus: there's so much involved in sleep training that people don't realize because they don't realize how their life is affected. Maybe with their partner, right about sleep training, because maybe they're not sleeping in the same room anymore. Maybe one is sleeping on the couch, and one is sleeping in the bed so their child can sleep in their bed like? Is there open honest conversations with your partner about that like? Are you on the same page? And then that leads to being resentful towards each other.

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Danielle Ubhaus: because maybe the mom's doing all the work hard work, and the dads or the other partner is like sleeping, and whatever that looks like in their ho! In your home. You have to be mindful of the relationship as a whole, too. But then that all goes back to. You want to be the best mom you can be. And how can you be the best mom? By starting with sleep?

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Tanya: yeah, I love that.

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Tanya: Okay. So.

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Tanya: Tommy, you typically work with families of kids aged 12 months to 4 years. Correct.

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Danielle Ubhaus: Yes, so that's like my primary. Most of my clients are 12 months to 4 years. I do work with babies. That's not saying that I don't like that's not saying that I don't work with babies.

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Tanya: But okay.

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Danielle Ubhaus: But a lot of times.

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Tanya: And okay.

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Danielle Ubhaus: Most parents who come to me are like about to have their second kid, and they're ready to get their older child sleeping because they realize that they can't be up in the night with 2 children, because then it's just detrimental to the whole household. So I primarily work with 12 months to 4 years. But I do work with babies every once in a while, because sometimes those second and third time moms come back and they're like. I don't wanna do what I did for the last 3 years. I wanna like start on the right foot.

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Tanya: I can totally relate to that. With my third meeting.

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Danielle Ubhaus: Right, exactly. And I think that's like part of my passion, too, is working with moms who have like, who are about to have their second or third kid, whatever or fourth I mean. I know I'm kind of an outlier with lower, an outlier with 4 kids, but you know, I think that's a real passion mine, too, because I'm a mom of multiple kids. And so I think it's a lot easier for them to relate to me because it just

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Danielle Ubhaus: it flows because you always wanna do something different. And you're a new mom each time you have another kid, and you have learned so much. But then sometimes you have a kid that rocks your world, you're like, oh, wait! The first 2 are so easy.

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Tanya: Right? And then, yeah.

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Danielle Ubhaus: Right, and then the third is a terror, and like in my case, my first was so easy, and my second was a complete terror, and I was like.

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Danielle Ubhaus: wait what I was like. I thought I had this down, cause my first was so amazing, but I didn't at all.

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Tanya: They're they're not.

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Danielle Ubhaus: Yeah, exactly.

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Tanya: Too prideful. Yeah, they're like.

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Danielle Ubhaus: Exactly.

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Tanya: Let me instill some humility in you.

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Danielle Ubhaus: Exactly.

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Tanya: Okay, so can you share what are the types of problems people are coming to for like, is it that their kids won't stay in their bedrooms? Are they having a hard time falling asleep? Is it that they won't fall and sleep without their parents in their room with them? I'm sure it's a little bit of everything. But tell me, what are.

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Danielle Ubhaus: It's seen

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Danielle Ubhaus: it's a little bit of everything. So if a baby is still in a crib

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Danielle Ubhaus: a lot of times, it has to do with frequent night weeks

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Danielle Ubhaus: and naps.

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Danielle Ubhaus: So obviously, you know, if a baby's in a crib and can climb out, you have to stop having them be in a crib, because that's a danger to them.

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Danielle Ubhaus: But

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Danielle Ubhaus: So you know, if they're still in a crib which some, you know, there's different philosophies about how long a child should stay in a crib, and every parent is different, and I don't push my own philosophy on them. But I also am someone who personally have moved all of my children to beds between

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Danielle Ubhaus: 20 months and 2 and a half. So pretty early. For most moms. And then I have worked with clients who have kept their kid in a crib until they're 4, because they don't climb out, and they're they go to bed perfectly fine. So there's really no perfect time to switch them out of a crib. But if the baby is still in a crib, so you know, obviously, the younger kids, but typically like 12 months to 2 years, they're still in a crib. It has a lot to do with frequent night weeks

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Danielle Ubhaus: and knock problems.

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Danielle Ubhaus: And a lot of times. What I see is that the bedtime routine isn't strong because we don't think that

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Danielle Ubhaus: a kid in a crib still needs a solid bedtime routine, and then a lot of times, maybe they're falling asleep on the parent, and they're transferring them. So then when they wake up in their crib. They wake up, and they're like, where the heck am I like, I was just sleeping on Mom, and so we work on reducing that association.

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Danielle Ubhaus: In a manner that's not just like, throw them in the crib and let them deal right? So when you start to, I mean, if you woke up

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Danielle Ubhaus: if you fell asleep on the couch, and all of a sudden you woke up in your bed. You would also be confused like, how did I get here. And so I see that a lot with cribs, and as far as toddlers go who are in beds. I work with a lot of previously close sleeping families.

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Danielle Ubhaus: So families who are just ready to stop co-sleeping and co-sleeping sometime means sleeping in the parents bedroom in their bed. Sometimes it means that the one parent is sleeping in the child's room with them.

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Danielle Ubhaus: and they're just over it. And a lot of times I've also seen the fact that when they're coast sleeping, especially if they're still nursing they wake up a lot of times throughout the night, and then the mom is just like a human pacifier, and they're over it, even in the toddler stage. So that's like the biggest thing. And it's like, How do you remove that support without.

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Danielle Ubhaus: with, while still working within your toddler's emotions and having them understand what's happening. Without it being like too sharp of a change. Right? So

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Danielle Ubhaus: it's a lot of gradually removing support in that but a lot of times it's really because the parents are just done co- sleeping like they want to have the relationship back, you know. Like all of a sudden, they have a toddler, and they're like we haven't slept in the same bed for 3 years.

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Danielle Ubhaus: and that's hard on a relationship. So a lot of times, that's really what I see. And then, obviously like with that depending on the age of the child sometimes dropping naps. And how do you deal with bedtime? And then it's just a constant struggle, because dropping a nap is really hard, and that's probably the hardest, that I think that's the second hardest transition. I think 2 naps to one nap is the first hardest, and then one nap. To know naps is the second hardest transition, both for the child and the parents. Because you're like. Now, what do I do with my kid? All day

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Danielle Ubhaus: I used to have 2 to 3 h where they slept. And you're like, okay. Now, what do I do?

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Danielle Ubhaus: But then they're sent still at that phase. Where then that time needs to be earlier because they're tired. And so those are. Those are the biggest

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Danielle Ubhaus: things that people come to me with is stopping Co. Sleeping because they are ready to get their relationship back, or they're just ready to sleep in their own bed, that without getting kicked, or whatever that may be and then then also just you know, the frequent night weeks, and that's that's really hard.

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Tanya: Yeah. Yeah.

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Tanya: So how do you do it? Like, for example? The baby. So this is me, the baby who gets nurse to sleep, and falls asleep on

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Tanya: on top of you.

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Tanya: and then you transfer her or him to the crib.

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Tanya: and

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Tanya: sometimes she or he wakes up in the middle of the night like you said, like all disoriented.

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Tanya: So how do you? Gradually.

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Tanya: I mean, cause I have just. I've tried all the methods, but I have just

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Tanya: put her in. There are times when I transfer her into the crib which, by the way, my daughter, right now is 21 months and I'm still nursing so funny that you said that you stopped your last one at 21 months. But yeah, so there are times when I'll transfer her, and she'll wake up, and then she'll just scream and cry, and I'll just let her cry until she falls asleep. But I mean, what are your suggestions for mamas, who just.

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Danielle Ubhaus: Yeah, I mean number one. That's not a bad option. So that is totally an option. That that is, you're not harming her. You're not doing anything negative like, it is

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Danielle Ubhaus: totally okay to do that. I just wanna like for any mom listening like, if you feel like that's comfortable for you then that's totally fine. But the biggest thing is just

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Danielle Ubhaus: one of the reasons that I stopped nursing at 21 months was because she was still waking up in the middle of the night, nursing. She could fall asleep at the beginning of the night independently, but then, in the middle of the night she was still nursing, and I was over it. To be honest, like I was just done so I was like, until I get rid of all feeds. She's not gonna stop

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Danielle Ubhaus: and that's how it worked in my house. But as far as like waking up, I mean nursing to sleep the biggest thing I always suggest are are a couple of options, and I like to give parents options because they all everybody has a different feeding journey right. And so the first option is to start nursing at the beginning part of your bedtime routine, so like before you even do jammies or.

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Danielle Ubhaus: Or anything. You start with nursing, and then you do bedtime routine, and then you soothe it another way, so maybe you rock them for a few minutes, and at 21 months, I mean, they can walk. They can stand. They're verbal like. They can express their

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Danielle Ubhaus: disdain for what you're doing to them.

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Tanya: Yeah.

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Danielle Ubhaus: But you start by nursing, and then you do your bedtime routine, because then you feel as a mom, if you're nursing relieved.

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Danielle Ubhaus: you don't have to pop, maybe, and then.

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Tanya: Yeah.

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Danielle Ubhaus: So they're still getting that nursing session. Another thing I suggest is that if they take bottles, that if the other partners home, having switching to bottles.

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Danielle Ubhaus: So, having the other partner do a bottle at the end of the bedtime routine, and then getting them comfortable with Mom not being there, and then you can go back to nursing before the bedtime routine.

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Danielle Ubhaus: And again just soothing another. We. So that's rocking. That's giving them some extra hugs, giving them some extra songs like staying in the room for an extra 5 min.

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Danielle Ubhaus: And sometimes they'll fall asleep on your shoulder, and sometimes you just have to put them in the crib and then go back and comfort them again and understand that it's a big shift for them. It's a big change. And that's not something that is easy for children to understand.

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Danielle Ubhaus: But in reality like it's not the at

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Danielle Ubhaus: again after 12 months. Essentially, I mean, that's not their primary form of nutrition. So that is something that you can tell yourself as a mom to remove that mom. Guilt is while it is great like. They are eating food.

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Danielle Ubhaus: and so they get nutrition other ways, and that is something that is very common in the Us. And pretty much.

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Danielle Ubhaus: I mean

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Danielle Ubhaus: in most first world countries. I will say so, you know, like after 12 months, it's not necessary.

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Danielle Ubhaus: It is. I sometimes think it's more.

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Danielle Ubhaus: I have, like a connection bond thing. After 12.

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Tanya: Oh, my!

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Danielle Ubhaus: Than anything else. And so a lot of times we feel guilty because we're removing that connection bond. But there's so many other ways to connect a bond with our children, but at bedtime I always recommend moving it to the beginning part of the routine, and that goes, if you're bottle feeding as well. If, like. Your child is still taking a bottle at 21 months, whether it be regular milk or breast milk.

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Danielle Ubhaus: or any other sort of supplement that your doctor has them on always moving that bottle to the beginning part of the routine.

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Danielle Ubhaus: because it just it helps get that association away. So they go into their crib. Oh, wait.

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Danielle Ubhaus: and then, as far as feeding in the middle of the night, I mean, that is also every parents feeding journey right? And so I'm never gonna take away your feeding journey and sleep training. So if you wanna still nurse in the middle of the night, and that puts them back to sleep, and you get them in the crib like if they nurse, for, let's say, 10 min they go back in the crib. Not a problem. Then it's not a problem.

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Danielle Ubhaus: And they go back to sleep. But it's when all of a sudden they're screaming and they're crying, and they're awake for like an hour or 2 like, then you need to go to the root the the problem and try to fix it and try to soothe and other ways, and comfort them in other ways outside of nursing

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Danielle Ubhaus: or bottle feeding at that matter, too.

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Tanya: Yeah, I love that, and I don't know why. I never even thought to

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Tanya: nurse at the beginning of the bedtime routine. I really love that suggestion a lot.

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Tanya: So I'm thinking of the mom at home who's just so overtired and at her wit's end. And I'm thinking she clicked on this episode in the hopes that it's gonna help her. What would you say to this woman? And like, what are your tried and true tips and tricks that will help get these families some more much needed. Sleep.

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Tanya: Hold on just a sec. Sorry.

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Danielle Ubhaus: Yeah.

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Tanya: Let's see

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Tanya: what's going on.

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Tanya: I don't know.

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Tanya: Okay, you know what, honey. Let's take this out and put it back in or wait. I don't know if I can do that.

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Tanya: Okay.

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Tanya: I mean, can you play another game cause? I'm not sure that I can get this work right now, and oh, here we go.

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Tanya: I lucked out

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Tanya: alright.

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Tanya: I go upstairs. I love you.

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Tanya: Sorry about that. Alright. I'm gonna just.

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Danielle Ubhaus: No worries.

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Tanya: That I'll reread that for you. And then we'll

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Danielle Ubhaus: Didn't know I got it. It was actually Kathy's perfect point. I recorded another podcast episode once

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Danielle Ubhaus: and my daughter in the middle of like this beautiful thing I was saying, interrupted.

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Tanya: That sucks so bad.

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Danielle Ubhaus: Okay.

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Danielle Ubhaus: so what are for the exhausted mom?

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Danielle Ubhaus: What are some things that I would tell them.

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Tanya: Yes. Is the gist, yeah.

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Danielle Ubhaus: Like to try.

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Tanya: I do, too.

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Danielle Ubhaus: I have.

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Tanya: Tip. No, you're good. You're good. Yeah. They're trying to do tips and tricks that will help them get more sleep. Like, basically, yeah, like.

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Danielle Ubhaus: Yeah, okay.

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Danielle Ubhaus: so if you are an exhausted mom, and you are totally just don't know where to start. My first suggestion is to write down your child schedule. What does it look like? Because a lot of times we don't even know what their naps are, what what a normal bedtime is how many times they're waking up at night because we're just so exhausted. And I have been there time and time again.

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Danielle Ubhaus: and it is really helpful to think of how old your child is, what an ideal schedule looks like, and what does their schedule look like? Because that is, it is always about a schedule and a routine, and while we

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Danielle Ubhaus: like to envision our lives of oh, we have kids, and we can just incorporate them into our lives

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Danielle Ubhaus: in the first few years we are working around them.

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Danielle Ubhaus: and it does get better. I would like. My youngest is about to be 3. My oldest is 8. It does get better, and you can be more flexible, but not until you understand your child's sleep, because then it does make having flexible schedules easier. So.

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Danielle Ubhaus: You know, write down their schedule, track it for a few days, and like, see if you can find any

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Danielle Ubhaus: constants like. Are you putting them down too late. Are you having their a wait time between naps too long? Are there? Wait times too short, and I find this happens a lot, because you don't realize in the first year how often it changes it pretty much changes monthly.

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Tanya: Yeah.

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Danielle Ubhaus: So all of a sudden it goes from. They should be awake for 45 min in the first 12 weeks to an hour, and then an hour and 15 min, and then an hour and 30, and then it can jump to 2 h, and really finding that sweet spot because a lot of times you'll realize. Well, I just try to put them down, and they just don't go to sleep, or they always fall asleep nursing. And this can go, you know, up until like 18 months and 18 months, is kind of the latest point where you put them on one nap.

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Danielle Ubhaus: So

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Danielle Ubhaus: Some babies go to nap one nap at 12 months old. It's not as common.

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Danielle Ubhaus: But you have to really think about what.

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Danielle Ubhaus: how your child's sleeping and what's working for them. So if you're like man, they slept really well yesterday, and I kept them awake for an hour and a half between each snap. Well, maybe that's their sweet spot.

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Tanya: And.

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Danielle Ubhaus: Each. That's why there's a bit of a range for awake windows between naps is because you have to find your baby sweet spot.

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Danielle Ubhaus: So that's always the first thing I tell moms to look at is try to figure out their schedule. And maybe the schedule is not working. But if you at least can write down and be like, Hey, I tried to put them down at 9 o'clock every day, and it doesn't work, but when I put them at that 9 30, it works. And just realizing that

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Danielle Ubhaus: the other thing that a lot of moms don't focus on is a consistent week time, and that goes for babies all the way up into toddlerhood. A consistent week time is key to a consistent bedtime and a consistent bedtime routine.

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Danielle Ubhaus: So.

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Tanya: Or that one before? Yeah.

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Danielle Ubhaus: Yeah. And I think you know, so many moms don't focus on it. When people are like, how do I get a consistent bedtime? I'm like, start with a consistent wait time.

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Danielle Ubhaus: because then the schedule is predictable. Starting at 6 months is when I put all babies on, timed like clock schedules, so we follow less week windows. We use week windows to determine their schedule. But then it's like, Hey, this is their schedule now, like at 9 o'clock they have to go down, and then they go down at 12, and then they go down at 3. That's not an exact 6 month schedule but just to get the gist of what a time schedule is

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Danielle Ubhaus: versus under 6 months like Oh, well, if they only took a 30 min nap, then I'm gonna put them down in an hour and a half from when they woke up. But starting at 6 months, it is a clock schedule, as far as I'm concerned.

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Danielle Ubhaus: So the other thing is like, no, you're not alone like we.

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Tanya: Yeah.

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Danielle Ubhaus: I think so many times in the moment moms think that they're the only one that this is happening to. And it's a hard truth to accept, because it's your life, and you in the moment but know that there are people out there that you can get support from, and that can help you, and

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Danielle Ubhaus: there is not a single

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Danielle Ubhaus: client case that I have had that

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Danielle Ubhaus: has not been like another

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Danielle Ubhaus: where it's been like, oh, we're co-sleeping, and I don't want to go sleep anymore. Oh, my gosh! I'm keeping my baby just doesn't sleep

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Danielle Ubhaus: and it's a lot of that has to do with trying to find their schedule and trying to figure out what their week windows are. I've had a client who tried keeping their newborn up for 3 h because they were like, Oh, they're just not tired, I'm like, but they are, and that's why they're having trouble going to sleep. And then I've had clients who have had older kids who are trying to keep really short week windows because they think they're so tired.

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Danielle Ubhaus: and so that's really hard

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Danielle Ubhaus: when you don't understand what their schedule should be.

Tanya: so I know you typically work with kids aged 12 months and older, although you said, you do work with babies as well, so I'm thinking about. A friend of mine who mentioned her 8 month old, was still waking up every few hours, and I know for me, like Serena was doing this around 8 months as well, and I think it was right around the 8 month mark that she started to sleep through the night for me. But it was only because I took advice from a friend of mine to let her cry it out.

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Tanya: and I was just so exhausted, and I was at by wit's end at that point, because

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Tanya: my husband, he had been out of work for a few months he had broke his leg last year we had just put down a dog, and then our other dog was still peeing all over the place, so not only was I wake up in the middle of the night, but I was also waking up in the middle of the night to clean up dog pee

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Tanya: so.

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Tanya: And it was just so funny, because my.

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Tanya: like, as we were saying, like all kids are different, my older 2. I didn't have this problem so much like Lucia. She was

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Tanya: sleep trained. I wanna say it like 8 weeks, and then rock on. My middle child was 13 weeks, but I didn't breastfeed them as long as I did with my last one, Serena.

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Tanya: So

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Tanya: this is what I thought. It was just like

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Tanya: normal for not to sleep through the night. I was thinking it was because she wasn't like. This is just normal for babies who breastfeed. But a friend of mine was telling me about how her pediatrician told her

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Tanya: when her daughter was 6 months old and breast fed, that she should have adequate nutrition to be able to sleep through the night, and then he advised her to let the baby cry it out, and said of anything to have her husband go into the baby's room in the middle of the night, when she woke up because of my friend went in there. It was like, you know, waving like a piece of meat in front of like a tiger.

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Danielle Ubhaus: Right like.

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Tanya: You should, the baby would wanna nurse so like this was such a pivotal moment for me when my friend shared this, and I'm I'll be forever thankful to her. But it was like she was giving me permission to do like what I need to do

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Tanya: in in order to get like the much needed sleep that I needed, and for my daughter, too.

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Tanya: like to train her to stop waking up every couple of hours, because it's like every time she was waking up I was feeding her. And just like essentially reinforcing this behavior.

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Tanya: Honey, there's nothing wrong with your belly button.

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Tanya: But yeah. And every time she would wake up.

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Tanya: you know, she would just get this reward, because I'm I'm feeding her

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Tanya: But anyway, yeah, so I tried the cry it out method. And I'm not gonna lie. It was hard listening to the crying. And, you know, feeling guilty and worrying about like, are the other kids gonna wake up

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Tanya: but think thankfully for me, like the other kids never woke up. But I just had to like remind myself, like I'm not neglecting her. I'm doing this for both her and I, so we can get more sleep. And you know this isn't forever, and it eventually worked.

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Tanya: Hmm!

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Tanya: I think I started dropping. I started by dropping like the 2 Am. Feeding, and I did that for like a week or something, and then I dropped like the dream feed at 10 Pm.

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Tanya: but yeah, I think it maybe took like a couple of weeks for the crying to stop, but definitely no more than that. But what I'm getting at is

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Tanya: like, what advice would you have for the mama, who's just so exhausted and waking up every few hours, and their baby is 8 months old, like, what can they do to start getting more sleep for themselves and their baby?

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Danielle Ubhaus: Yeah, absolutely. I think there's a couple of things I want to touch on first before I go into that pediatricians most of the time between 4 and 6 months. Say that you can start sleep training, because as long as your baby is growing properly, they're like, yeah, they can start sleeping through the night. And absolutely, that's true. And I think a lot of moms get turned off because most pediatricians don't know enough about sleep training. Besides, cry it out, and I think that

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Danielle Ubhaus: I don't have a problem with crying out. I don't. That's never my first recommendation to somebody, because if somebody's coming to me for help. They don't like crying. And so, you know, I find that if you're willing to do cry it out, you're doing it alone because you're willing to do it. You don't need that support and it's using other methods. But a lot of times parents are like, well, but my baby is only 4 months old, and don't they still need my food like? Don't they still need me? And yes, it's true, like obviously like children need us to survive.

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Danielle Ubhaus: Cry it out is not a bad method, and I don't think it is a bad method. I just think that a lot of times. If people are actually looking for support, they're not looking for, cry it out support because they can do it on their cell by themselves, you know, like they talk to their friends or whatnot. And then.

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Danielle Ubhaus: so I just wanna say that because a lot of pediatricians are like, Yeah, just close the door and go in in the morning like that's it. And I think so many moms now get so turned off by it

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Danielle Ubhaus: because they don't want to do that, and they want to know their options. And then that's where the bad rap for sleep training comes in, because pediatricians, who is this trusted source for us as moms, especially first time. Moms, we are like, Wait. No, but that doesn't feel good to us, and if it doesn't feel good to you, you don't have to do it, but if it does feel good to you, go for it like there is no harm. You are not harming your child.

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Danielle Ubhaus: I promise you

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Danielle Ubhaus: as far as you know, going in and having your husband go in or your partner go in. I think that that is 100 a valid thing that their pediatrician said. And I think there is that association with a mom, and that they're gonna feed, especially if they're exclusively nursing and having I, I always

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Danielle Ubhaus: include the partner in slip training and a lot of times. It's a gradual inclusion, because sometimes it makes the baby cry even more because they're not used to the other parent coming in.

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Danielle Ubhaus: but that is absolutely a tip that I use just sometimes we have to start in a more gradual way, because I have definitely gotten frantic text in the middle of the night for moms.

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Tanya: Wake up!

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Danielle Ubhaus: Husband went in, and

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Danielle Ubhaus: it it they just started. Our baby just started screaming more or tell, they just started screaming more. And that's because it's just it's new to them. And so sometimes you just have to gradually and include your partner in the maybe the bedtime routine. Maybe they do nothing. Maybe they're just present in the room. But starting to include the partner in the bedtime routine is where that kind of starts for me. The other thing I wanna touch on is I don't love dreams.

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Danielle Ubhaus: I think that only if that helps you get a longer stretch, but a 10 o'clock dream feed, and only getting you till 2 o'clock at 8 months old isn't really doing much. A dream feed is meant to then make that stretch at least double.

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Danielle Ubhaus: So

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Danielle Ubhaus: I never recommend starting with dream feeds like including like anytime. A mom has come to me as a baby, I'm like, listen, if it gets you a 6 h stretch than do a dream feed, but if they get a 6 h, stretch from 8 to 2, just keep it 8 to 2,

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Danielle Ubhaus: cause adding, in that feed is actually harming the sleep even more because you're disrupting their sleep. So if they are getting that stretch like just ditch it

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Danielle Ubhaus: So I always recommend starting with ditching the dream feed, to see what their natural cycle actually is.

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Tanya: Okay.

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Danielle Ubhaus: And I also think dream feeds like could be cut out by 4 months like, because at that point you do wanna see what their natural cycle is. And that's just a personal opinion of mine. I know there are sleep consultants who sometimes add in dream feeds back in, but I think that I would like to see what their natural cycle is, so that we can work with their true natural cycle. Not an interrupted one.

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Tanya: Yeah.

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Danielle Ubhaus: But you know, like like I said, like, if a dream feed gets you 6 h.

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Danielle Ubhaus: then that's great. But this a dream fee getting you 2 to 4 h is probably just their natural cycle, anyway.

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Danielle Ubhaus: And so

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Danielle Ubhaus: I think, just really, to the exhausted mom, I mean, the bottom line is is, if you're exhausted and you are ready for a shift, you just need to seek help, and you need to get guidance because a lot of times. That's the harder part than actually sleep. Training

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Danielle Ubhaus: is just admitting that you are so tired, and you're ready for a shift.

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Tanya: Yeah.

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Danielle Ubhaus: And when you can admit that to yourself, or when you can admit that to your partner or to your best friend, whatever it is, it is such a weight off your shoulders because you don't have to be exhausted for months and months and months and months and months, and constantly be waking up multiple times a night, and if that doesn't feel good to you, then you can change it in a way that does feel good for you. And I think that's what's really important with sleep training. To be honest, is it? Can all be done in a way that feels good for you.

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Danielle Ubhaus: and a way that feels good, that you're responding or treating your baby or toddler in the moment.

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Danielle Ubhaus: And so I think that that's just like something that's really misunderstood about sleep training is that you do have to cry it out, and you don't. You don't have to cry it out. I mean, I had I just worked with.

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Danielle Ubhaus: She's 2 and a half. We just wrapped up, and her parents were literally trying to close the door, and she would scream, screen, scream screen, and eventually pass out right by the door to the.

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Tanya: And thankfully.

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Danielle Ubhaus: Speak in the room to go, and they're like we. We don't like this. This doesn't feel good for us.

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Danielle Ubhaus: You know, within a week we she was sleeping in her own bed. She was falling asleep in her own bed, and she and the 2 and a half year old felt good about it, you know she was like, Tell Miss D. That I slept in my bed all night, and I think that's what's really important is that

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Danielle Ubhaus: you can do it in a way with babies and toddlers that feels good to you. And that's really what we want as moms. Right? Like, we wanna do, mom, have our mom journey be

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Danielle Ubhaus: fairly close to what we envisioned. I mean, it's never going to be exactly what we envisioned, because you don't know what.

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Tanya: No.

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Danielle Ubhaus: Until you become a mom, and you don't know what it's like having 2 until you have 2, and you don't know what it's like having 3 until you have 3. You really like, I say that over and over again, and I can't express it enough, like, yeah, everybody's a perfect mom until they become a mom.

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Tanya: Yup, yeah.

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Danielle Ubhaus: And

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Danielle Ubhaus: and if that's not to, to, you know, put anyone down who is pregnant or not a mom yet, but it's just like riding a bike. You don't know what riding a bike is like until you ride a bike.

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Danielle Ubhaus: Don't know what going on an airplane is like until you go on an airplane.

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Danielle Ubhaus: and I feel that that is so true in momhood. And so many times things shift along the way. And we get more mom guilt because we realize that we don't want to be waking up multiple times in a night throughout the night. And then we feel mom guilt because it's like, Well, I'm a mom. So I just have to take all the sacrifice, and I just have to do it all. And you don't

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Danielle Ubhaus: at all like you're actually more powerful when you seek support and when you seek help

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Danielle Ubhaus: as a mom, because you are then striving for that mom journey that you imagined.

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Tanya: Yeah, yeah, and by asking for help, you're opening your

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Tanya: opening up the possibilities of like

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Tanya: there's just so much more that you don't even know until you ask for help.

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Danielle Ubhaus: Great and like with regards, I say, sleep is the foundation of everything. So when I get well when I get a good night's sleep, and you can think about this, even Pre kids, when you got a bad night sleep. You felt it the next day when you got a good night's sleep like you woke up refreshed, and you felt good, and you like we're ready to conquer the day, and that's what you want to feel as a mom, because being a mom is exhausting in itself.

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Danielle Ubhaus: I'm not saying that it's not exhausting, and that you're not still gonna feel tired. But you're gonna wake up with the sense of Oh, my gosh! I mean, I remember having newborns and being like.

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Danielle Ubhaus: did I wake up last night.

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Danielle Ubhaus: and then going to look at my phone to see that I actually did track a feed and not barely remembering it, but then also waking up some mornings, be like, oh, my gosh! Should I let my kid cry all night because, like my baby baby baby cry all night? Because was I so exhausted that I didn't wake up.

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Tanya: Yeah.

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Danielle Ubhaus: And I remember that with each one of my kids, and luckily I think none of it ever happened. But it was one of those things that I was like. I don't want to live in that state

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Danielle Ubhaus: like I wanna live in a state that I wake up in the morning, and I'm not short tempered with my kids, and I'm not short tempered with my toddler because I did sleep, or because they woke up, or then like trying to figure out how to get them out the door and to go to preschool, because they're so tired because they woke up in the middle of the night and then worrying about them throughout the day, being like, Oh, my gosh! Are they having a bunch of meltdowns and tantrums? And that's not how we want to live as parents and moms, and I don't. And I think that sleep is the foundation to not live like that.

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Tanya: And I truly believe.

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Danielle Ubhaus: Leave that because

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Danielle Ubhaus: when I started sleeping again, I mean so I was

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Danielle Ubhaus: either pregnant, had a newborn, or was nursing for a total of

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Danielle Ubhaus: 7 years

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Danielle Ubhaus: like there were very few months in between that I was not nursing or pregnant

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Danielle Ubhaus: and I remember when we were done having kids, and then at about it was all only a year ago was for not even 14 months ago that I stopped nursing, and that's when I like truly came, started to come out of my post part of experience.

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Danielle Ubhaus: and I remember like being like, Oh, my gosh! I can actually go to bed at 10 o'clock, and not have to think. Oh, my gosh! This might be good on! Wake up tonight and half to the nurse, and that is

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Danielle Ubhaus: such a relief as a mom to feel and not having to worry about dealing with kids. In the middle of the night.

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Tanya: Yeah.

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Danielle Ubhaus: So I think you know sleep is the foundation to be to have that mom journey that you want. But also, like you're not harming your kid. You're not damaging them while you're doing it for them that you're doing it for them. And you're teaching them skills that's gonna get them through regressions and gonna get them through all these transitions, including into early elementary age and older elementary age. And like, you know, you're teaching them these these lifelong skills that yes, sometimes you have to tweak, and you have to figure out.

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Danielle Ubhaus: But it's also for you, because you

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Danielle Ubhaus: truly need it.

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Danielle Ubhaus: because they can take short little naps in the car.

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Danielle Ubhaus: They can try to start to make up sleep. But like we need sleep as moms, and they need sleep as kids, because that is when they grow and develop and their brain develops. And I think that's so critical.

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Tanya: Yeah. And for our immune system, too, it helps you prevent you from getting sick, and if you do get sick, then if you have a strong immune system. You get better, quicker.

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Danielle Ubhaus: I mean.

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Tanya: Don't get as sick.

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Danielle Ubhaus: Right, I mean, I about a year and a half ago like one of my first clients, was a 10 month old, little baby.

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Danielle Ubhaus: and

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Danielle Ubhaus: he had started daycare at about 5 and a half months, and he was sick, I mean within the first day he got like hand, foot, and mouth, and then he was sick, and he got flu. And then he got Rsv.

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Danielle Ubhaus: He was sick every other week out of daycare, I mean super stressful for the parents, because they both were working full time and they weren't working from home. So they had to take days off. And it was super stressful, and we sleep trained. And I'm not saying that he did not get sick because

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Danielle Ubhaus: all little kids get sick in some sort of environment. But he went down to getting sick once every 6 weeks because he started sleeping, and his body was able to heal and like get the rest. And his immune system was able to like replenish itself from the day. And it's so true, and it was like such a powerful experience for them that they're like. Oh, my gosh! He hasn't been out of daycare in 6 weeks, because he hasn't been sick.

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Tanya: Yeah, that's amazing. I love that success story.

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Tanya: one more thing

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Tanya: before you go. I did. Wanna just touch on. What about the kids who

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Tanya: wake, who just won't sleep on their own like they wake up in the middle of the night, and they come into the parents room, or they will not stay in their room unless the parent is in the room.

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Danielle Ubhaus: So it all starts with bedtime, and so it starts with gradually removing support. So, you know, instead of sleeping in their bed, you start by sleeping on the floor.

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Danielle Ubhaus: and you you just remove that touch. But you're still in the room. You're still there. You're still responsive, I mean, I

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Danielle Ubhaus: sometimes we get to the point where I have the parents sleep in the hallway, put up a bed in the hallway so that they're still close enough so the kid can be there, but then it also stops them from entering the parents room. And it's about setting boundaries. And this is something that

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Danielle Ubhaus: I also firmly believe in is that we, as parents, set boundaries around so much, and sleep is the last thing you set boundaries around, because somewhere along the way it it became that we shouldn't set boundaries around sleep.

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Danielle Ubhaus: And

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Danielle Ubhaus: basically.

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Danielle Ubhaus: we set boundaries of what kids can eat right? They want ice cream all the time, and you have to say no, and you ha! You probably as a toddler, mom, let them tantrum about not having ice cream.

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Danielle Ubhaus: or you respond by trying to hug them.

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Danielle Ubhaus: So how do you do that around sleep and with sleep? It's a it's. It's a little bit harder, because we don't want to be disrupted in the middle of the night, and we have less patience in the middle of the night.

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Danielle Ubhaus: So it's all about gradually removing support. So, depending on the age of the kid depending on what it is. I mean, there are times where I'm just like Nope, you walk them back and you close the door and you walk back out. You don't sit on their bed, you you don't do anything. There's times depending on the age of the kid that I say you send them back. They are old enough. They know exactly what they're doing, and you send them back.

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Danielle Ubhaus: You know. Then sometimes parents are like. Oh, well, they said they had a bad dream. I'm like, Okay, so you give them hugs. I mean, my kids still have bad dreams.

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Danielle Ubhaus: I gave them a hug. I we we like, I said. Up. I gave them a hug I cuddled on for a minute.

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Danielle Ubhaus: and then I send them back to bed.

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Danielle Ubhaus: and that's just how it works. I don't feed into bad dreams. I don't do monster Spray. I don't do any of that. I think that. Then you're just feeding into the fear and you don't. You wanna take the fear away? You don't wanna feed into it? But you know if they are a kid that says, Oh, well, I just. I'm so scared of whatever you know. Then you say, Okay, well, before we go to bed. Let's just look around your room. Look, there's nothing here, and you talk about how things look different in the dark, in the light.

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Danielle Ubhaus: And sometimes I don't know if parents are just saying that because they just don't know how to respond

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Danielle Ubhaus: or if truly, a child has a fear of something, and then you have to assess where that fear came from. Right but if they wake up in the middle of the night and they just wanna crawl into your bed. I mean, you have to decide what boundaries you're setting around sleep, and that's what it comes down to, and that's a really hard thing to reflect on as a mom is, what are your boundaries around? Sleep? So are you okay with them. If they wake up in the middle of the night coming to sleep with you? Do you both sleep well?

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Danielle Ubhaus: Are you open with your partner about it?

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Danielle Ubhaus: And sometimes that works, and that's okay, but sometimes it doesn't. And then you have to realize what does bedtime look like? Are you falling asleep in the room, or are you? Are they falling asleep independently. If they're falling asleep independently, and they wake up in the middle of the night, you give them a hug. You walk them back for a couple of nights you tuck them back up and you leave, because that's exactly what you do at bedtime. If at bedtime you're falling asleep with them in the room, and then you're sneaking out, going to clean up the house and then going to bed in your own

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Danielle Ubhaus: bad. Well again, they're confused when they wake up in the middle of the night because you were there when they fell asleep.

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Danielle Ubhaus: So then you have to start removing that support of you sleeping, falling asleep in the bed with them, and that sometimes looks like you starting by sitting on the end of the bed while they fall asleep, and then sleeping on their floor. Sometimes it means that you sit somewhere else in the room while they fall asleep.

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Danielle Ubhaus: and then you and then you leave, and yes, in the middle of the night. Then you return to the same spot. Or you, you know, go to tuck them back up and give them a kiss, and then you leave like it's it's there's

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Danielle Ubhaus: because it's not. Every child's not the same. I can't say this is exactly how you do it.

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Tanya: Right? No. Yeah.

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Danielle Ubhaus: But essentially it's like gradually removing support and understanding where there's what their starting point is when they fall asleep.

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Tanya: Yeah, yeah, I know I'm hearing all this. And I'm just like.

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Tanya: and I'm sure I'm not alone and think. And I hate having this attitude and mindset of like. I tried that, though.

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Tanya: Well, my kids are hard, and I'm sure that somebody else is saying this, too. But my kids are so hard and they're so strong willed and

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Tanya: I mean, I'll just tell you like, where we're at right now is I? Just we have our kids, because we've tried all that like. But you know, and a problem

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Tanya: 2 is probably like not being consistent with it, because I feel like we would get like, you know, cause we would

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Tanya: sit in the room and, like gradually, like move closer and closer toward the door.

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Tanya: But it's just like when it's dragging on for so long. And you're so tired like at that point in time like you just don't even have patience for it anymore. But I do like. You're right. Every child is different. And I love these tips and

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Tanya: I'm sure that they work for some people. But yeah, like where I'm at right now is like our kids are just falling asleep

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Tanya: and our bed. I'm nursing my other one to sleep, and then we're once they're asleep. We're moving them into their own beds, and they're

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Tanya: 4 and 6 right now, but

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Tanya: I mean and I just in the in the same boat as you, and like

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Tanya: just removing the shame around it. And that

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Tanya: just knowing like it just looks different for any for everyone. And

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Tanya: I think as long as

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Tanya: the intention behind. It is like

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Tanya: love that you're not hurting your children.

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Tanya: But.

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Danielle Ubhaus: Well.

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Tanya: You know, when you're ready.

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Tanya: If it is a problem in your mind, and you're ready to seek help, then by all means do it, and like love, and take all of the advice that Dee's giving you today. Sorry. D, what did you want to say?

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Danielle Ubhaus: No, that's okay. I was just gonna say, you know, I think that's

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Danielle Ubhaus: consistency is key. And that's where support comes. Re goes really far, because it's really hard to stay consistent. If you're not being accountable to yourself, and sometimes you need somebody to help keep you accountable. Think about it like losing weight.

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Danielle Ubhaus: Some people can do it all by themselves, and some people hire personal trainers. Some people hire nutritionists, and that's okay. And they know that they need that support. And I think that if whatever is working in your home

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Danielle Ubhaus: works for you, then that's fine. But if it's not working, and you don't like the way that it's turning out. You can change it. And I have heard time and time again. She's so strong. Well, he's so strong. Well, this is never gonna work. And lo and behold, every single time it works, because you are hold being, you're holding yourself accountable. You're holding your child accountable. And I'm holding you accountable.

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Tanya: Yeah.

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Danielle Ubhaus: I have 4 very strong little girls, and no one can tell me that a strong little child cannot be sleep trained.

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Danielle Ubhaus: It's more

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Danielle Ubhaus: most of the time when people tell me that it's that the parents aren't ready for a change.

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Danielle Ubhaus: and that's what.

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Tanya: I'll admit it.

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Danielle Ubhaus: So.

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Tanya: Yeah, like, I'm

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Tanya: this was something that I got honest with myself. And I, yeah, I'm not because I I feel like at this moment in my life like my Serena is. She's the youngest.

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Tanya: and I am gonna start like or stop

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Tanya: breast feeding her here now soon. But it's almost like, I'm just not ready for this time in our life to be over. And I actually like snuggling. I like Co sleeping. And I think that that's okay. I think that there are people out there that, like Co. Sleeping, and whoever is listening like you don't have to feel like that's not what this is about. But if people are ready for a change like here it is. Here's the advice that these.

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Danielle Ubhaus: My one advice about Co. Sleeping is actually, I have 2 pieces of advice. Please talk to your partner to make sure that both of you are on the same page because you don't want that to be

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Danielle Ubhaus: a hard point in your relationship.

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Danielle Ubhaus: Co. Sleeping is fine, like I. Personally, when my husband goes on business trips, my kids get to sleep with me, and I don't mind it.

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Danielle Ubhaus: but we also agree that we don't like co-sleeping as a family

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Danielle Ubhaus: like together. So that is something that like when my husband goes and travels.

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Danielle Ubhaus: and for work like my kids get to take rotate sleeping with me each night, and that's okay that works in our house. The second thing is, if you're gonna go sleep with the baby, I just ask that you do it safely, and you really do your research because

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Danielle Ubhaus: co-sleeping.

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Tanya: Yeah, I mean, we've ever, yeah. And.

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Danielle Ubhaus: And.

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Tanya: So lived with my babies, and this is like my.

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Danielle Ubhaus: Well, yeah, your older kids. And I, I think just sometimes people like Hear Co sleeping. And they're like, well, they do it around the world they do, and there are different home environments around the world. So don't compare our coasting to somebody else's. But if you want to go sleep with your baby. Just make sure that you're doing it safely. Because that is a huge

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Danielle Ubhaus: problems.

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Danielle Ubhaus: But if you wanna go sleep, then go sleep like. Don't let anybody shame you out of Co. Sleeping, but also make sure that it's something that you talk about in your house like I work with some. I just work with someone who didn't want to go sleep with their baby, but Coast sleeps with their toddler. I don't know why.

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Danielle Ubhaus: but that was something that they ha! Her and her husband had an honest conversation about, and was like, We will Co. Sleep, and if one of us is done Co. Sleeping. We will have an open conversation about it. It won't be a fight, it won't be resentment. We will start to have a conversation about it, and I think sometimes we just fall into coast sleeping without being opening with our partner and like you, wanna be open with your partner because it took the both of you to make this child so if if you know what I mean,

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Danielle Ubhaus: and but if it works for you, then go for it like, then this, then, honestly, this episode, not for you. Type of thing. And this is for the people who are ready, like you said, ready to to make a change in their home that they know is going to be for the better, and that maybe needs support along the way, or maybe don't. And just this gives them the permission to do what they've felt was right all along.

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Tanya: Yeah.

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Tanya: I agree. Alright, Dee. Well, that wraps up. Thank you so much for coming on. And can you tell everyone at home how they can find you.

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Danielle Ubhaus: Yeah, absolutely. So my website is, www, dot restful house haus.com. It's a play on my last name. I also mostly hang out on Instagram so you can just search d uphouse. That's dee ub HA. Us, and you'll find me there. I give lots of tips. My dms are always open. I love having conversations with moms. And just because we have a conversation doesn't mean that we need to work together. I just like hearing from you to like. See what's going on to give you tips. I have lots of free resources.

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Danielle Ubhaus: To give you to help you in your sleep journey.

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Tanya: Awesome. Thank you so much. Alright, mamas, thanks for tuning into another episode of the momentum. Podcast I hope you found today's show valuable. And if you did, I would so appreciate it if you would share it with a friend and subscribe rate and leave a review. This helps me reach more mamas like you, who could benefit from the great content shared here.

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Tanya: And if you happen to share today's episode on social, be sure to tag at Tanya Valentine coaching. I will have something special to share with those of you who do until next week. Mama's keep up the good work you were doing so much better than you give yourself credit for. Bye.

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