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Tanya: Oh, so funny! Alright! So let's get right into this alright welcome, Katie. Thank you so much for coming on the show today. I'm so excited you're here.

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Katie Fenske: Thank you for having me. I love chatting with you.

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Tanya: I know. Same here, we'll have to like make this a regular thing.

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Katie Fenske: All right.

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Tanya: Well for those of you that are not familiar with you. Can you start just by introducing yourself to the audience.

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Katie Fenske: Oh, sure! I am Katie Fensky. I am located in Southern California. Been here all my life. I am a mom of 3 boys. So they are 17, and almost 5. Got a birthday coming up in a week, and I've got to get going on that.

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Katie Fenske: But they are officially, all in school. Now, I've also, in the last couple of years started my own podcast so I have a podcast called the Burnt Pancakes Conversations. And I am also a certified potty trainer. Never thought I would say that, but here I am

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Katie Fenske: doing that.

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Tanya: I love it, and I want you to get into what led you to becoming a certified body trainer.

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Katie Fenske: Yes, probably would have like 10 years ago, would have never thought I'd be doing this. But it was basically failure. Failure got me to this point. My oldest son, when I potty trained him. I had no clue what I was doing.

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Katie Fenske: and it was a very rocky, messy road. I would say it was really hard, and I would say out of all points in motherhood, that's maybe when I felt like

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Katie Fenske: the least perfect, the biggest failure cause I just didn't know

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Katie Fenske: why I could not potty train him, why he was not getting it so fast forward. I potty trained my other 2 kids. Things went a lot better. I learned along the way what I was doing wrong the 1st time

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Katie Fenske: started helping like local friends. I just had friends coming like out of the woodwork, like you've potty trained your 3 kids. How did? How'd you do it? Can you give me some pointers? And then I realized like, oh, I could actually help moms that were in my shoes like similar to how I felt. But I have the tools now to help them. So I took a certification class. I hit up social media and just started sharing all my tips. And then

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Katie Fenske: people were like responding to it, and I started doing one-on-one consultations for potty training.

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Tanya: That's amazing. Yeah. Cause you're definitely hitting a pain point for a lot of families.

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Katie Fenske: Right. Had I known that? Well, I don't even know if 10 years ago there were consultants like that I could contact. I was, you know, asking my friends who their kids potty, trained very easily. So they were like, I don't know why he's still doing that. I don't know why this. Had I known that there was help, I, for sure, would have

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Katie Fenske: worked out as much money as I could to help get help.

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Tanya: To be honest with you. I had never even heard of certified potty training until

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Tanya: meeting you, but so can you go into a little bit

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Tanya: like. So what was going on with your oldest son

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Tanya: just for those at home? They might be going through the same thing.

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Katie Fenske: Right. He was a holder, so he would hold his poop, but then, when I put pants on him or underwear, he just pooped his pants. No problem like it was the very 1st few times he pooped. It was terrifying for him, and so I think he had that little fear of pooping without something on him. And I just thought, Okay, it's been 3 days like the book said, I'm going to put underwear on him. He's good to go, and then he, for, like the next 9 months, would just poop in his underwear.

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Katie Fenske: So I didn't realize what I should have done was

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Katie Fenske: gone back, kept him bare buns, nothing on his bottom, and just got him really comfortable going. And like as the 1st time, Mom, I was just frustrated, I probably did not react the way

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Katie Fenske: I would have liked to. It was like, why'd you do this again like he would tell me, mom, I pooped in my, I pooped, and you're like, but you're supposed to go in the potty, not your pants. And so I like way overreacted to it

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Katie Fenske: after pot between my second and 3.rd My 3rd also was afraid of pooping, but I learned more how like

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Katie Fenske: his.

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Katie Fenske: his feelings towards it, like knowing the root cause like, oh, you're actually scared of going! Here's how I can like support you in. That was a big Aha for me.

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Tanya: So I'm glad this is coming up, and everything happens for a reason. I am such a believer in that. No, because I'm going through this with my 3rd right now. So, my older 2, they're older. They're potty trained.

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Katie Fenske: Like.

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Tanya: Your old. Her name is Arena, and

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Tanya: she yeah, this is what we're going through with her like she is terrified

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Tanya: to poop, and how I have potty trained, all of my kids is I let them run around naked when we're at home.

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Katie Fenske: Yep.

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Tanya: And just anytime she would have to poop, though it was just tears, and like screaming.

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Katie Fenske: Bye.

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Tanya: She won't go, or

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Tanya: like she will poop like she has pooped on the floor. But, like my thing is is, I'm afraid I don't want her to be constipated

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Tanya: right? Right?

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Tanya: And I'm like, just put on the diaper.

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Tanya: But, like what

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Tanya: I know I've read about this before that like there, is it? They're afraid of losing like a piece of themselves like.

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Katie Fenske: Yeah, or they're not even sure what is coming out of me. Because, like, I tell, some people like most of the time, we change their diapers, and they don't even know

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Katie Fenske: what has come out of them, what it looks like. And it's just scary. My 1st son. The 1st time he pooped. I was literally chasing him through the house as he's running and screaming, crying as Poop is coming out of him all over the floor, because he was just terrified. And my 3rd same way, and it's nothing that I like. I tell parents it's nothing that you did. You didn't cause this fear like. You don't know how your kids are going to react until you take that diaper off, because I thought

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Katie Fenske: you're totally ready. You're telling me when you poop in your diaper. So, of course, like this is going to be easy for you. All 3 of mine did hold it for 3 days at the beginning.

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Katie Fenske: So if they are not going for 3 days, that's not

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Katie Fenske: uncommon, I know. Like you're worried about constipation.

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Katie Fenske: It mine never got constipated, but they did hold it like by the 3 day mark. It was kind of like, there's no holding anymore. It's coming. But it was like a series of Okay, we're gonna like, it's on Day 3. Now, I'm sure it's coming. So

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Katie Fenske: don't be too nervous about constipation unless your child has a history of that before.

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Tanya: Okay.

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Tanya: So what if they go more than 3 days.

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Katie Fenske: So with some kids that are withholders, we will recommend a pediatric suppository, which is not a fun thing for parents to have to do, but it is a way like I always say, like an inhaler is a way of helping your child to breathe.

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Katie Fenske: A suppository is a way of a tool to get your child to poop. So once you administer it, it's like 15 min, Max, and they should poop because it stimulates their muscles to get

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Katie Fenske: to move the poop along so it'll give them the feeling that they have to go and like with my youngest.

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Katie Fenske: I tell people all the time like this is how the the little poop dance went. I knew he needed to go. He was asking me for pants. He'd be like mommy pants. And I knew like, Okay, that's where he feels comfortable going. And so I would just stay very calm and say, Oh, I know this is very different for you mommy's going to help you. You can have pants after you go poop. So I'm still like setting the boundary that we're not going to have pants.

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Katie Fenske: We're gonna go in the potty. But I'm like mommy's gonna help you. We'll do it together like he became a totally different child. When he had a poop. He would get cranky and irritable, or he'd want to like, sit with me and cuddle. And I'm like.

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Katie Fenske: Okay, we're going to do this. So when he'd say he'd be like mommy poop like he's really scared. I'd be like, Okay, let's go sit down on the potty. Mommy will help you. And he would sit down and then pop back up and be like, no, no, no, I don't want to. And I would just say, like, Okay, thank you for trying. Come back when you need to go. And we did that on. Repeat like.

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Katie Fenske: for an hour, like back and forth, back and forth, like I just knew I have to stay calm, and I have to just like walk him through this fear he finally did go. The 1st time he went it was on the floor, and so we just like

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Katie Fenske: put it in the potty and flushed it down the toilet. But by the second and 3rd it was like he knew. Now, mommy's not giving me pants. She's gonna help me, and I'm not like, sit down. Don't get up, you know, which is what I probably tried to do with my 1st like, don't get up. But I was like, Oh, okay, thanks for trying. Come back when you need to go. And it was like, every couple of minutes we would go back and forth to the potty.

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Katie Fenske: Okay, okay.

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Katie Fenske: So I I had to make sure I've got nothing planned on this Saturday, which

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Katie Fenske: hard with 3 kids that's.

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Tanya: Yes, yeah. And we're gonna get into that. I've got.

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Katie Fenske: Yeah.

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Tanya: 0.

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Tanya: But this is great. So what I just heard from that is, just

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Tanya: stay calm and kind of like, stand your ground and supportive language like, I'm gonna help you through this. And it's okay. And.

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Katie Fenske: We're gonna do it together, mom, like, do you want mommy to sit with you? Or do you want mommy to stand by the door like. Give them choices like my son was like, Nope, you were sitting right there like I'd sit on the bathtub on the like edge of the bathtub, and he'd sit on his potty cause he like needed me there, and sometimes just like giving, hugging him when he was on the potty and rubbing his back, because then you can kind of get them to sit a little bit longer.

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Katie Fenske: helps. But it's really it's just them working through that anxiety, and there's you can't like. Force them just to get over it. It's like they have.

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Tanya: To go through them all.

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Katie Fenske: To do it, which is so hard, because it's like I want to control everything but them. Going poop like that is totally their body, and I cannot control it. I mean the suppository can get them to go.

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Katie Fenske: so in one sense you can control it a little bit. But other than that. It's like I can be here and support you. But you're ultimately doing it.

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Tanya: Yeah.

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Tanya: And that's what it all is, anyway. For them. It's about like getting control, like.

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Katie Fenske: That they they can't control hardly anything in their yeah.

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Tanya: Now. And this is one thing they can control.

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Katie Fenske: There's a.

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Tanya: Great. I'm writing lots of notes.

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Katie Fenske: Part of it.

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Tanya: I don't know if you can tell So

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Tanya: next I want to get into. How do we know when our child is ready for potty training?

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Katie Fenske: Right, because you'll hear, I'm sure, like you go into those Facebook groups, and there's a whole rage, most people will say, like, at what age should you do it?

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Katie Fenske: it's different. Because in like, when I was growing up, my mom was like everyone potty trained before, too. And I'm like that is absolutely not the case anymore. Like just

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Katie Fenske: our generation. That's just harder to do like, moms are working moms. Kids are in preschool. You hear this like thought of the 3 day method, and then you try it for 3 days, and it's not done. And so you feel like my kid's not ready. So I usually say.

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Katie Fenske: you want to look for some behavioral signs, developmental and behavioral signs that your kids ready. A lot of kids will show these signs sometime around 2 to 3. So

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Katie Fenske: personally, I potty trained all of mine around 2 and a half

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Katie Fenske: that worked great for me, that worked great for my schedule. So like you also have to look at like your schedule. Do you have time to do this? But what you're looking for is, are they aware that they've gone pee or poop, so like kids might tell you they're wearing a diaper, and they say poop, or they might start hiding somewhere to go poop, or they'll tell you their diapers wet, or just like pat their diaper

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Katie Fenske: look to see if your child can communicate their needs.

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Katie Fenske: so they don't have to be able to speak like my son would want water, and he would just like Do the sign language. And wah! Wah! You know, if they want water, or if they want something, are they able to communicate their needs?

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Katie Fenske: can your child follow some very simple directions? So if you, if they're holding a toy, and you say, put the toy in the box. Can they follow that direction? And usually you start seeing that, you know, around the 2, the 2 mark

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Katie Fenske: Do they copy you so like imitation? Do they like to

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Katie Fenske: do what their brothers are doing? Do they like to, you know, my brother put on a cape and ran around the house like, do I copy you? Another one is showing interest in the bathroom, so like they want to flush the toilet like mommy does so another kind of like copying thing. Are they starting to do things independently? So do they want to like?

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Katie Fenske: Put on their shoes by themselves. Do they want to buckle their own seatbelt? We don't like them to do that because it takes them an hour, but when you start seeing that they go like me do it. I do it. Then you're like, okay, like, they're starting to show those skills that will be easier to potty, train them

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Katie Fenske: are they able to like somewhat, take their clothes on and off. So, with or without assistance, those all just show like coordination, which they'll need for potty training. So they don't have to do every single one of these signs. But they are helpful because these skills will make potty training. Easier I do have. I'll I'll send you a link. I have a link to my potty training checklist that you can look to see my readiness checklist. But all of these, like usually between 2 and 3, is when you see kids

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Katie Fenske: capable of doing this. But again.

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Katie Fenske: a kid might show every single sign. You know, they're absolutely ready. You take the diaper off, and then they might react totally differently, like it's been very common lately to have kids who are afraid to pee, which you would think like.

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Katie Fenske: okay, I get pooping. That's kind of like a different thing. But kids who will hold their pee like for 8 h, because they're terrified of releasing, which I don't know what it is like in this last year that's been something I'm seeing a lot. But before, when they had a diaper on, you'd never notice that. So sometimes you just have to kind of go into potty training and say, I'm just gonna

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Katie Fenske: be ready for whatever my child does. They might get it in a couple of days, and you're like I hit the jackpot great. But just be aware, like your child's gonna react. However, they are going to react.

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Tanya: Okay, awesome. This is great. Love it?

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Tanya: And then what are some common mistakes you see parents making in the potty training process.

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Katie Fenske: Okay side note, I probably made all of these. So when I say, these are like mistakes, it's just we're we're moms. We're just learning as we're going.

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Katie Fenske: I, personally never use pull-ups.

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Katie Fenske: I

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Katie Fenske: I wouldn't say this is necessarily a mistake, because pull-ups are marketed to parents. They say these are going to help with potty training. These are what you need to switch to when you're ready to potty train. But they're really marketed to keep parents in their product longer, like they want like, prior to disposable diapers. Kids were out of diapers by 2. And now we're seeing kids like

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Katie Fenske: my son in kindergarten has kids going to school in pull-ups. So it's almost like

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Katie Fenske: they are doing a great job getting us getting clients longer. So it is possible to potty train without pull-ups.

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Katie Fenske: My thing with pull-ups is they feel like a diaper, so they don't really teach a child like

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Katie Fenske: not to go in them.

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Katie Fenske: They're they. They suck away the wetness. So the kids like I don't get the difference. So

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Katie Fenske: I would say, avoiding pull-ups

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Katie Fenske: at all costs, if you can. But hey, there are preschools that require them. It's if a parent has like 3 days to potty train and the kids back in preschool.

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Katie Fenske: that might be the path you're taking, and there's ways to navigate that. Another mistake is

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Katie Fenske: expecting it to take 3 days, because, like, I don't know if you've heard like oh, the 3 Day method, 3 day method. I have so many people say, okay, so I'm just gonna like potty train on Saturday and Sunday. And then we're good to go on Monday, and I'm like.

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Tanya: Yeah. No.

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Katie Fenske: I wish I wish it only took 3 days, because

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Katie Fenske: that would have made my life a whole lot easier. But it really is like

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Katie Fenske: the 1st few days are the hardest, like you get day one through 4 like that's very, very intense. The next week you are still like really thinking about potty training you're like keeping track of. When did my child go? When should I kind of expect the next one

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Katie Fenske: by the month? Mark is usually where I always felt like, Okay, we're like in a really good groove now. But if I would have thought, Okay, it's going to take 3 days. And then within a week, I'm like, Oh, my God! I'm still like, totally in potty training mode. I would have felt like a failure, and I think a lot of parents after 3 days, if their child's not fully potty trained like taking themselves to the bathroom, then they think, Oh, my child's not ready, and so they like, put the brakes on where you really can keep going. At that point. It's just a lot on the parents.

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Tanya: Yeah.

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Katie Fenske: Yeah, another one is like, I personally

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Katie Fenske: think that the bare buns method, the naked method is the fastest way for kids to learn. Some people just aren't aware of that method. They think, okay, we're going to start potty training. I'm going to put some underwear on my child, and they're not going to go. But for some kids wearing underwear just is a replacement for a diaper. They just haven't figured that out. It doesn't click for them. So.

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Tanya: Like they feel it.

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Katie Fenske: And they just think, well, I peed in a diaper. I'm going to pee in my underwear. Maybe it's a little bit more wet, but they just like their little brains, haven't figured it out yet. So for some people who are like I don't know why. She's just constantly like peeing in her underwear. I'm like.

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Katie Fenske: try bare buns and see if like anything changes cause, then at least, yeah, go ahead.

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Tanya: So when you say bare buns, do you mean completely? Or do you also mean like, yeah, you can put pants on without the underwear.

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Katie Fenske: Oh, no! So I would do

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Katie Fenske: bare buns, which is nothing from the waist down, so naked from the waist down, which is really fun to have a little boy running around your house naked like I hated that phase. And then, after that, once, my child is like pretty consistently peeing in the potty whether I'm taking him or he's going on his own so like in those 1st few days.

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Katie Fenske: don't expect your child to just like I have to pee, and then walk to the bathroom and go pee by themselves a lot of times. It's like you see them doing the pee pee dance, so you get them to the bathroom, or they're like just starting to pee and you get them to the bathroom.

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Katie Fenske: It's okay. If, like, you're the one initiating it for them, but once they're like pretty consistently going in the potty. Then do commando so shorts with no underwear.

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Tanya: Okay.

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Katie Fenske: So I do bare buns so naked, and then commando. And then once they're pretty good commando. Then we move to underwear.

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Tanya: Okay. Gotcha.

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Katie Fenske: Little baby steps.

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Tanya: Yeah, this is also good. And then how do we best prepare ourselves and our child for potty training?

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Katie Fenske: Yes, most importantly is, prepare yourself like, just go in knowing. Okay, I am committed to this. So

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Katie Fenske: you know, no matter how my child reacts. I'm sticking with this, giving yourself like enough time. So

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Katie Fenske: I when I potty trained my kids, I was still teaching. I was a classroom teacher, and I did it over my spring break, or like over summer break. I made sure I had enough time where it wasn't like.

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Katie Fenske: you know. If it was a 3 day weekend I'd take an extra day off, you know, or an extra 2 days off. So just making sure you have time. And it's not like, oh, we're gonna take that trip to New York next week. Let's get them potty train before that like, just make sure there's nothing around like, look at your calendar, make sure, like no doctor's appointments or anything that's gonna get in the way of that

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Katie Fenske: and just go in with that mindset of. You know, this might be rocky for a little bit. It's not going to last forever in the moment. It feels like this is never going to end. But there is going to be an ending point.

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Katie Fenske: I feel so great when you have all of them out of diapers like that's the best best feeling. But just go in knowing like

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Katie Fenske: I'm in this for the long haul like, even if it takes more than 3 days, we can get through this and then preparing your child like I just started off reading potty books a little bit before we started. Potty training. That doesn't mean your child's going to wake up and be like, I read that book today. So I'm going to try this on my own. But it is a good way to like just start talking about the concept and the vocabulary.

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Katie Fenske: You can also start changing their diaper in the bathroom like maybe the week or 2 before. Just so they kind of get used to like. Oh, this bodily function is happening in the bathroom little stuff like that, and then just have them practice autonomy. So

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Katie Fenske: hey, can you pull your pants down by yourself? This is all stuff you can do before you even think about potty training. Can you put your shirt on, just getting them practice doing things on their own, because eventually, with potty training, we want them to be able to take themselves to the bathroom and pull down their pants and sit down and go. So just like helping them know, like, you're also capable of doing things without mommy.

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Katie Fenske: it's like a just a good skill to have.

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Tanya: Okay, right? Right?

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Katie Fenske: No.

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Tanya: And then so coming back to Serena.

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Katie Fenske: So.

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Tanya: I'm like. I'm hearing you say all these things, and she is like so ready.

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Tanya: But for those of you out there who are maybe experiencing the same thing with me. So with my older 2, I feel like it was so easy

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Tanya: for them for me to potty train them because they're 22 months apart.

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Tanya: and at the time when I was potty training them, I don't think either one of them were in school, or I think, Lucia, when I potty trained Rocco.

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Tanya: She was in school, but it was just preschool, so it wasn't like every day, and it wasn't.

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Katie Fenske: Like full name.

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Tanya: You know. So we weren't running around as much.

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Katie Fenske: Yep.

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Tanya: But now, with my 3, rd I'm finding it so difficult because we have

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Tanya: had so much going on. Just, you know I've got

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Tanya: my one daughter, who is in 1st grade and goes to school 5 days a week.

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Tanya: You know, full days.

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Katie Fenske: We'll pick up every day. Yeah.

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Tanya: Yeah. And then I have another son who he's in preschool. So that's a totally different school, and it's 30 min away.

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Tanya: So

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Tanya: yeah. And then, too, I have. Yeah. And then I have them involved in things like, she's in gymnastics right now. I have him in ninjas. I don't have my 2 year old in anything at the moment.

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Tanya: but it's just it's a lot of running around, so I'm finding it hard to do this. And I did. I I had started

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Tanya: and I started when we we didn't really have a lot going on. And I did like that, you know. Bare buns my bed where I just let her run around.

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Katie Fenske: So naked.

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Tanya: And then what happened? Oh, I had so much going on! I was going to like I was going to Atlanta for this event that I did this fundraiser for breast cancer. And I was like busy preparing for that. And that kind of like took all my focus. And I, you know, left my kids behind to do that, and then my grandmother died, and then we all we flew to Boston.

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Tanya: So now we're I'm just like I've given up.

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Katie Fenske: Yeah. But okay, that's a really good point, though, like.

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Katie Fenske: if if you know it's too much, then go back to diapers like there is a point when you're because some parents are like, Oh, I feel like, I put in all this time like, am I confusing them? If we do it sometimes it's okay.

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Tanya: No, I feel.

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Katie Fenske: Diaper. Throw in the towel for a little bit until you know you're ready like with my middle. He was so ready to potty train, but I was 30 some weeks pregnant, and I'm like there's no way I can do this. I am so I could barely like

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Katie Fenske: Chase after him at the Park. I'm like, how am I going to also? Potty? Train him, and and in my head I was like I need to get him out of diapers before the baby comes, because then I'll have 2 in diapers, and my mom's like he's really ready. You should potty train him. I was too tired. So then we just waited a little bit longer, and once the baby was on a good schedule, and I actually had some effort and time we did it, and it worked out fine, so

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Katie Fenske: make sure you are ready.

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Tanya: Yeah. And I love what I want to point out. There, too, is don't let outsider's opinion.

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Tanya: You, and what you would.

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Katie Fenske: Because I think a lot of moms right now are feeling like, Oh, my gosh, my child's 3 and a half. I'm so people keep telling me I need to do it.

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Katie Fenske: whatever it's whatever is right for your family, you know. If if it means that you're potty, training them at 3 and a half 4. That's that's what happens. Okay. But I was going to tell you. So you're talking about being on the go on the go.