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Tanya: oh, alright! Hello, Rachel! Thank you so much for being here.

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Rachel: Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited.

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Tanya: Oh, my God, this is a dream come true for me as I told you before. But we are going to talk about today how to support our kids in their times of struggles.

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Tanya: And it can be so painful when we see one of our kids

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Tanya: going through a hard time, and I feel like our natural instinct is just to want to save them or make the problem go away altogether. Why do you think it's important not to try and fix or save our kids from their struggles?

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Rachel: Oh, this is such a great question, because it is such a natural reaction for a mom to want to remove their pain, to swoop in there and

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Rachel: fix it and save them. But I think there's several reasons why it's important not to

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Rachel: 1st of all, because it's impossible. So like as human beings, we all go through pain and suffering and hard things. And so if we think that it's our job as moms to protect our kids. From that

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Rachel: we're setting ourselves up for an impossible job. We literally cannot save them from the hard things in life. But the good news is

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Rachel: is that the hard things are going to be part of their process of who they're supposed to become. And so I once heard one of my mentors said, you. You can't protect your kids from process.

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Rachel: You have to let them go through the process of growth and development. And when you take away the hard things, or you try to prevent them. You are preventing their growth. Now, that's not to say that you like invite the hard things, or, you know, like a parent would never push their child down the stairs to be like, well, you're going to get stronger from going through that experience. You don't make hard things happen to them. But when those hard things do happen.

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Rachel: you're right there to support them. You're next to them, but you allow them to grow and develop.

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Rachel: I've heard it sort of described as like a dark room. Analogy, I know we don't really do dark rooms anymore, because we do. You know, all of most of our photos are digital now. But in the old days there was like specific steps that the film had to go through in order to develop.

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Rachel: and you'd put it in like the I don't know the Toner or whatever, and you'd let it sit in there, and then you'd move it over into the next solution, and then the next. And if we try to rush our kids process, we're like skipping steps in their development. And so we need to let them as hard as it can be for us.

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Rachel: We need to let them go through the hard things that are that are eventually going to help them to develop into the person that they need to be.

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Tanya: I love that analogy, and I actually took photography in high school. So I remember.

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Rachel: Explain the steps a lot better than I can. Yeah.

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Rachel: And and if you would have just been like, Oh, you know this film, like, I just wanted to develop faster or whatever, and like skipped steps, the picture wouldn't have come out.

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Rachel: and that's kind of how it is with our children that we need to trust

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Rachel: that the struggles they're having in their friendships the struggles that they're having with academics, or whatever it might be, health issues that they're going to be stronger and better for it if if we're there to support them along the way.

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Tanya: Yeah, I love. Yeah, as hard as it is. Just like you're saying, reminding of yourself, reminding yourself that it's a part of the process. It's almost. It's a lesson there. It's there, because there's a lesson to learn.

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Rachel: Yeah, love it.

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Rachel: which I think we all know, like with our own.

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Tanya: Yeah.

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Rachel: If we look back on our own stuff in our own lives. The hardest stuff in our lives is probably where we learned the most

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Rachel: so that can be important, I think, to give yourself a little pep talk when your kids are having a hard time, just take a breath and remind yourself

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Rachel: this is part of their process. And it's going to be okay.

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Tanya: Yeah, it's gonna be okay. So how? So what does that look like? How do we support our kids when they are struggling in a healthy, loving way that shows them we care, while also supporting their growth through the struggle.

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Rachel: Yeah. So I teach a 9 month course for women called Self assured Motherhood. And we have an entire month.

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Rachel: That's titled support their struggles, and I always tell the women in my class that I was very intentional about the verbs that I chose for each unit.

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Rachel: and so I support their struggles, not save them from their struggles.

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Rachel: fix their struggles, anything else to support them? What does that mean? And I looked up the definitions of that, and to support has several different definitions. But I'm going to read some of them for you to bear or hold up, to serve as a foundation for

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Rachel: to sustain or withstand, without giving way.

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Rachel: to maintain, by supplying with things necessary to existence, to advocate, to act with or assist.

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Rachel: And I just love thinking about those verbs in or those definitions in the context of parenting. And what we're doing when we support our kids in their struggles to bear or hold up to serve as a foundation, for we are

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Rachel: bearing with them. We are beside them, we are holding them up, we are advocating for them. We are serving as like a scaffold for them when they don't know how to have a hard conversation. We practice with them. We stand beside them while they have it, but we can't always fix it or do it, or be their voice for them. We can just assist them and advocate for them.

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Rachel: and sustain sort of as these definitions say. So I try to think about that. When I think about how to support my kids in their struggles, I think about some of those definitions.

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Rachel: and it can be really hard to tolerate the discomfort

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Rachel: of not just fixing it for them. But I think it shows that you believe in them.

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Rachel: When you say to your kids like, Okay, let's practice having this hard conversation. You can do this. I'm not going to do it for you. You can do this, let me help you and support you.

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Rachel: And so those are some of the ways that I think we can support instead of save our kids from the hard things in their life.

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Tanya: I love that you said that it shows us that we or shows them that we believe in them.

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Rachel: yeah.

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Tanya: Because then I help. I feel like that helps them believe in themselves and helps develop their self self-worth and their yeah. Their belief that they can figure it out.

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Tanya: and it makes me think of. Who was I listening to? Was it Dr. Shefali, or

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Tanya: what's the other?

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Tanya: Doctor.

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Tanya: I don't know but she was saying something like, I'm not gonna solve this problem for you, because if I were to do that, then I'm taking away that feeling of achievement.

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Tanya: That you would get afterwards from figuring it out on your own. Who the heck was it I don't know, but that's just what that made me think of.

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Rachel: Yeah. And one of my favorite personal examples of that from the last few years I have a daughter who has pretty

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Rachel: severe anxiety about like public speaking or public performance. It's getting better and better the older she gets. But

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Rachel: last year she really did not want to do a piano

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Rachel: like not really a competition, but just it was like her and the judge

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Rachel: so she were like a little performance where they you know, rate, you, and whatever certificate of achievement I don't know what you even call that. But she really really did not want to do it, because she was afraid of playing in front of this judge, and so I had to weigh. Am I gonna make her? Am I gonna let her opt out of this?

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Rachel: And sometimes the the answer is to let them opt out. When you can see that something is too much too hard above that like. If she had been asked to play in front of 200 people, I probably would have advocated for her, and said, No, she's 9 years old, like we're not doing that yet.

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Rachel: but I thought about it, and I thought she can do this like she can play in front of one person. I talked to her teacher, her teacher kind of explained to both of us what the what the process would go like that day, and how nice the judge was, and all those things, and then I just had to support the heck out of her and help her practice and cheer her on, and I told her that when she was done we would go and get her favorite pink drink from Starbucks.

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Rachel: and then I was waiting outside the door when she went in to do it.

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Rachel: and she came. When she came out she came busting out. She threw the door open, and she said, I survived.

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Tanya: Oh, so good and so proud of herself.

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Rachel: She did, and it was such a great

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Rachel: moment to realize

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Rachel: I let her see her own capability, like I.

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Tanya: Yeah.

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Rachel: I supported her and stayed with her and scaffolded for her and advocated for her. But I didn't let her opt out, because this was part of her process. And now she's more able to play in front of smaller groups of people because she got through that obstacle of playing in front of one person, you know, so we just sort of have to guide them through and be that that support all along the way as they start doing harder and harder things as they get older.

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Tanya: That's it. That's it. And I think even for adults like, sometimes you really, you just need one person to believe in you, and it really does. It helps boost your belief in yourself.

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Rachel: Totally.

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Tanya: Get you to do it.

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Rachel: That.

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Tanya: And it's like, yeah, she's going through levels like her, the level one. It's like, I think of it like a game like level one was playing in front of the judge, or whoever, and then the next level now is playing in front of a small group, and maybe the next level is playing in front of 200 people. Who knows but.

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Rachel: Right, totally.

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Tanya: That's so good.

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Tanya: and how can we best support our children when we ourselves are struggling.

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Rachel: This is such an important question, because

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Rachel: when we have optimal energy and we're at our best, mentally and physically, it is so much easier to show up as the support that we want to be for our kids. But life isn't that way. We're going to have health problems. We're going to have seasons where we're really down emotionally.

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Rachel: And so I think it's important to remember that 1st of all, you don't have to be perfect for your kids. Your support for them doesn't have to be perfect all the time.

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Rachel: It's okay to have seasons where you're not at your best.

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Rachel: But you can still support them in the season that you're in. And one thing that I think of is moms who have, like chronic illnesses.

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Rachel: My mom had breast cancer for most of my life. She was diagnosed when I was 6, and she passed away when I was 19,

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Rachel: and so there were a lot of years where she had very little physical and emotional energy, because she was going through cancer treatments. But I remember how

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Rachel: present and involved she was, even from her bed

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Rachel: so like she would like call us in and ask us to tell her. Tell us her about our days. She would read to us. We would like play games with her in bed. We would, and I'm sure if I was able to talk to my mom now, she would say that she felt like she wasn't the mom that she could have been had she been healthier.

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Rachel: but she was still showing up to support us in the way that she could, and it was enough.

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Rachel: And so if you're going through a season where you're really depressed, and it's really hard to be the mom that you want to be. Just remember, do what you can do, and the shame spiral just makes everything worse. And you can be honest with your kids and tell them I'm having a really hard time emotionally right now, I'm not at my best.

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Rachel: And that's okay. It's a model for your kids that it's okay for them to not always be at their best, and also ask for help and support from other people, and let them know that you're not at your best. Other adults that can support your kids because you don't have to be everything for your kids. You can also bring in your extended family, your village, your friends, who can also help support them when you're not doing well.

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Tanya: Yeah.

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Tanya: And that could be hard for a lot of people like myself included.

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Rachel: So so hard.

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Tanya: Ask for help. Cause it can feel like you just

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Tanya: don't want to burden anybody.

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Tanya: You know, but.

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Rachel: Yeah.

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Tanya: I mean

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Tanya: in the long run. I mean, it could just be like small things right.

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Rachel: Yes.

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Tanya: Asking your husband to like

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Tanya: help out with the dishes, or something, or.

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Rachel: Yeah, or asking a friend if your kids can go home with their kids? You know, one day a week, or whatever, so that you have a little bit more

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Rachel: margin

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Rachel: and I think that in general people actually are quite honored when you open up to them and and tell them that you're struggling and ask for help.

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Rachel: I know I am with my friends.

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Tanya: Do like, tell me what to do. Like.

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Rachel: Yeah. Oh.

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Tanya: Yeah.

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Rachel: Yeah. So I think, kind of keeping that in mind and saying like, how would I feel if this person reached out to me and expressed that they were struggling and asked for help. I would I'd be really grateful that they trusted me with that, and so.

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Tanya: Yeah.

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Rachel: I think, sort of reversing the roles and thinking that way can help you to have the courage to ask for help and support. If you're not doing well. And another thing I wanted to mention is that I am a really firm believer. That screen time

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Rachel: is a tool like it can be used as a tool to help you when you are not at your best, and that Mom should feel no shame for that. And so, if you are in a season where you are not well, physically or mentally, it's okay. If you're especially if you have little children that are with you. 24 7. It is okay for them to have more screen time for a season while you get better. When I was pregnant with my daughter I was so sick.

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Rachel: and my little 3 year old had

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Rachel: so much screen time. I felt so guilty about it, but I couldn't take care of him otherwise, like I was pretty much in bed, and he's fine.

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Tanya: Yeah.

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Rachel: You know, it's like that wasn't his whole life. That was, you know, 6 months of his life where he had more screen time than I was comfortable with, and also looking back, I wish I would have just given myself a lot more grace during that time, because I was doing the best that I could. And honestly, he has a wonderful life like. So he had a little more screen time than I would have wanted. It's okay. And so really give yourself that permission. If you're struggling.

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Tanya: That is so nice. Thank you for saying that.

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Tanya: I go through that, too. Where? Yeah, you just let them be on it a little bit longer like, just because it's giving you a break.

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Rachel: Yes, totally.

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Tanya: Like the.

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Tanya: and if you don't have the help that like, I think you and I both live away from

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Tanya: family, and so.

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Tanya: With that

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Tanya: it can be hard to find

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Tanya: somebody to help out with your kids. It's hard to find for me. I found it very hard to find a babysitter. So

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Tanya: yeah, I love that advice like, use it as a tool. When you're going through a hard time. And just you're right. Give giving yourself some grace because I go through that, too, where I feel

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Tanya: guilty.

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Rachel: And I think what helps me to not feel guilty is to just decide ahead of time, like we're in a season

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Rachel: where we're going to have more screen time. And this is what it's going to look like, like we're going to do a movie there. He's gonna watch a movie in the morning, and then we'll take a break and we'll do lunch and a little activity, and then he'll watch another movie after lunch and like just deciding and having it be conscious instead of like feeling like, Oh, I'm just giving in, and it's just a free for all again. And he's just still watching the screens

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Rachel: like deciding deliberately. And like, these are the shows I'm okay with, these are the. And so you know, you're maybe plugging in some things that are a little bit more educational, but you're very much using it as a tool in your toolbox to get through a really difficult time versus just sort of like defaulting to it because you're overwhelmed, and you don't know what else to do.

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Tanya: Yeah, I love that planning it strategically in that way.

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Tanya: I love that a lot.

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Tanya: Okay, so

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Tanya: so many times it happens when we react to our children away, we don't feel good about. And then we do go through what we just talked about like that. That guilt, shame, spiral.

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Rachel: -

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Tanya: What do you think gets in the way between how we want to respond? And then the way we react

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Tanya: when our children are going through a hard time.

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Rachel: Yeah, I mean, I think.

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Rachel: like our humanity being humans like, we can know in our brain how we want to react. And our bodies can still have a reaction that almost feels out of our control like it's like, Whoa! Where did that rage come from? Like it's just

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Rachel: burst out of me, you know. So I think that brain and body, like they're not. They're not always keeping up with each other. Sometimes body is having an immediate reaction that you know 2 seconds later, you're like, Oh, that's not the mom I wanted to be like, your brain catches up a little bit. And so 1st of all, like emotions are normal.

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Rachel: and the worst thing that you can do is shame yourself for being a human. And so if you react in a way that you wish you hadn't. You can simply apologize

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Rachel: like you can. Right then you can say you can take a breath and be like say. Oh, my word, like I did not mean to talk to you like that. I am so sorry. Let me try that again.

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Rachel: and just try it again. And that's really modeling for your kids what it looks like to make a mistake, to do something you regret and to immediately apologize and fix it, or even if you can't get a hold of yourself enough in the moment to do it immediately.

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Rachel: Come back down 10 min later and address it. Don't just sit in the shame and and never acknowledge what happened. Go to your kids and say, I really lost it earlier today. And that's not the mom. I want to be. And this is how I wish I would have responded. And I'm trying to be a mom who talks to you guys in this way. And in the case of my children and hundreds of women I've worked with.

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Rachel: I've heard that kids are remarkably forgiving, and they really appreciate your honesty, and they they. And it's modeling for them what it looks like to build emotional regulation skills. One of my favorite quotes it was attributed to Viktor Frankl is between stimulus and response. There's a space.

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Rachel: and and that's true, like between getting triggered and us blowing up. There is a space. It's sometimes it is tiny, he says, in that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth in our freedom. And I think the more you practice

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Rachel: regulating or even going back and thinking about. Okay, what do I wish I would have done? The more capability you build to be able to pause during that space, or to almost like extend, expand that space a little bit. So when your body does feel triggered, you're not as likely to just lose it because you've worked on growing that space between stimulus and response, between

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Rachel: kids fighting and you flipping out or whatever it might be. And so I think you get better and better at this, not by shaming yourself. You get better at it by practicing, by repairing.

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Rachel: by giving yourself tons of self compassion. When you lose it it does get easier over time. I've definitely seen that in my motherhood journey from when I had younger kids, and I would freak out a lot more to now when

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Rachel: I do freak out on occasion, and I apologize. But it's much less

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Rachel: frequent because of how much I've practiced.

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Tanya: Yeah.

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Tanya: Oh, well, I remember that like I'll never forget. I learned it from you from your pockets. I think you were interviewing interviewing.

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Tanya: Was it a Georgia? I can't remember her name.

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Rachel: You're probably.

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Tanya: What was it?

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Rachel: I'm guessing. Probably Georgia Anderson.

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Tanya: Yes, I think that's who it was, and I think it was her that said, the

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Tanya: connection comes in the repair, and I was like that is my saving grades, and it has been like even just this morning, like I had to. I.

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Tanya: That's like my I I do apologize like. I mean, I had to this morning, because we were like running out the door. My daughter knocked over her chocolate milk, and it like spilled all over the counter onto the floor, under all the.

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Rachel: Oh!

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Tanya: Cabinets, and, like my son.

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Tanya: he

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Tanya: I took his Nintendo away, and so then he was mad at me, hitting me like.

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Tanya: so I snapped on them and had to apologize. But yeah, I yeah, sometimes it just

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Tanya: it feels like it just

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Tanya: comes over you. And it's

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Tanya: I don't know.

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Rachel: Because it it. It feels like a physiological like you. Almost you almost had no control like it just bursts out. And that's what.

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Tanya: Yeah.

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Rachel: Like, and there's some truth to that like it is a physiological response at like anger, and and so don't shame yourself for it, but also practice

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Rachel: practice calming yourself and extending that pause. You don't need to excuse the way you acted by also just recognizing this is normal. It's normal to feel angry and overwhelmed and stressed, and also, what am I going to do to try to regulate this part of myself going forward.

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Tanya: Right. And it does teach your kids, too, because even my kids will say, like my daughter, my oldest Lucia, is like Mom.

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Tanya: take a deep breath. Take a pause like count to 3.

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Tanya: Oh.

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Rachel: I know.

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Tanya: She's learning. And then and when she says that actually, it's kind of nice for me, because it's like a signal like Snap out of it, and it does work. Oh, my God, you're right! You're right.

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Rachel: Yes, totally.

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Tanya: Okay. So many times we listen to an amazing podcast or read a book full of wisdom. But when it comes to applying that knowledge in our lives we can fall short.

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Tanya: and I think you have a way of simplifying things and making them easier to follow through on. So if you had to boil down everything we talked about today into one simple action

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Tanya: to help us actually implement implement what we've learned today. What would that be.

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Rachel: I think that it is really helpful to have mantras that you can like refer to or pull from.

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Rachel: And so I would think about what you learned today and pull some

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Rachel: short

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Rachel: phrases you can remember like this is part of their process.

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Rachel: I can support them. I don't need to save them.

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Rachel: I am a human, and humans make mistakes or

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Rachel: it's normal to feel anger. Now, I can apologize like just sort of

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Rachel: pulling those lessons, writing them out, maybe even putting them somewhere visible, and then just saying themselves, saying them

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Rachel: to yourself, over and over and over, when you're in those moments it can really start to change you.

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Rachel: Dr. Becky Kennedy, who is from good inside.

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Tanya: Yes, that was the one I was thinking of earlier. By the way.

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Rachel: Oh, really, you're like it was a doctor yet she is so good at these these like little pithy phrases, and like one of them

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Rachel: is that she often says is, this feels hard because it is hard, and I love that for parents.

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Tanya: You know.

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Rachel: Like that permission to say like, Give, take a breath and say.

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Rachel: this feels hard because it is hard, and I can still be the mom that I want to be, because struggle is part of our process, too. We talked about in the beginning. That struggle is part of our kids process. But it's part of our process, and I can tell you I have become

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Rachel: a remarkably better person

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Rachel: because

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Rachel: of how hard parenting is

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Rachel: like being a parent has made me a better human being, because I've I've learned emotional resilience. I've learned patience. I've learned forgiveness. It's brought out all of my weaknesses in such a way that I can't.

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Rachel: I've I've had to become better because of the struggles of parenting. So it's part of my process, too. So just reminding yourself. I am becoming better. I am becoming stronger. This is hard, because it is hard.

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Rachel: I think, can give a lot of

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Rachel: can bring a lot of self-compassion to your parenting, which then you can bring to your children when they're having a hard time.

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Tanya: I love that I love, that I am becoming better because I feel like it's almost like an affirmation to.

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Tanya: because I know affirmative. They're supposed to be believable. And I feel like in order to make an impact.

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Tanya: And I feel like that's believable that I'm becoming.

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Rachel: Yes.

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Rachel: instead of like, if it's hard for you to believe, I mean, I hope

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Rachel: that all of the women listening believe I am a good mom because you are a good mom. You would not be listening to this podcast if you weren't a good mom.

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Rachel: But if that feels too hard for you to actually believe at this point, then I am becoming a good mom might be a good, a phrase for you to take with you. So yeah, just whatever work with different sentences until they feel true to you and then

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Rachel: say them often to remind yourself, the mom, you want to be the person that you're becoming, and it can really change your motherhood.

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Tanya: Yeah, I love that. I love the reminders like, maybe putting it on a post it note and sticking it on like the refrigerator, or maybe even like somewhere in your car, like somewhere where you are looking often and can see it.

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Tanya: Yeah, or even on your phone, like, I've seen people I just saw. Recently somebody had the serenity prayer as the wallpaper on their phone, and I was like.

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Rachel: Yeah.

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Tanya: Love that because that's my favorite prayer.

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Rachel: Yes, but definitely.

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Tanya: Awesome. Well, before we sign off today, is there anything on your heart that you would like to share with the audience? Specifically, a fellow, mom out there listening, who is going through a tough time right now?

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Rachel: I would just say that

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Rachel: everything is going to be okay, it is. And that doesn't mean

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Rachel: that everything's gonna work out the way that you want. But it will be okay. So.

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Rachel: for example, my mom passed away when I was 19, from breast cancer.

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Rachel: and to say if anybody then would have said to me, like, It's going to be okay. That would have almost felt dismissive, like I was so

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Rachel: deep in grief. And I know some of the women who are listening

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Rachel: are deep in grief about some of the hard things in their life. And so I'm not saying when I say everything's going to be okay. I'm not saying

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Rachel: that everything's going to turn out all Rosy. What I am saying is that you are strong enough.

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Rachel: that it's you are going to grow and learn lessons through the hardest things in your life.

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Rachel: I am a stronger, more emotionally resilient, more empathetic person because of what I went through with my mom's illness and passing. I don't wish that it would have happened

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Rachel: by any means, but I know that she would be really proud of the person that I've become through that loss. And it is okay, like we can get through hard things because they're part of our process. They make us who we are, and love is strong enough. Family love is strong enough

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Rachel: that we can support each other and get through even the hardest of times and seasons and things. So I would really encourage you to remember that it's going to be okay. The struggle is part of your kids process. And it's part of your process as a human being.

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Tanya: So beautiful. I love that.

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Tanya: Oh, and I'm so sorry about the loss of your mom like I can't even imagine what that must have been like, and

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Tanya: thank you for acknowledging, too, like that when somebody is going through like a really hard like, I can't even imagine losing your mom but when somebody's going through a really hard time like

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Tanya: it might feel dismissive to say, like, everything's gonna be okay, because in the moment when you're like, so down.

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Rachel: Yeah.

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Tanya: It's like, how can how can any like? How can this be? Okay, ever. But.

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Rachel: Hmm.

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Tanya: It is a nice reminder that

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Tanya: that is, it's a product. It's a part of the process, and it is. It's making you more empathetic. And somewhere along the line you're going to extend your empathy and compassion and understanding to somebody else, and that's going to help them through their journey.

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Rachel: Yes, it's so true, and I do think when people are going through hard times.

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Rachel: the only thing to say to them is, I love you so much, and I'm so sorry that this is happening, you know, and you don't need to distill a lesson. You don't need to help them up, or you know it's like, just support them that this definition of support being there for them beside them. You can't fix it. You can't take it away, but you can be there as a support for them.

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Tanya: Yeah. And it is so hard to know what to say when someone you love is breathing like that. But.

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Rachel: Yeah.

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Tanya: Those are 2 perfect things to say. I'm I love you, and I'm sorry, and I'm so sorry you're going through this.

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Rachel: Yeah, yeah, that's it. That's all there is to say, Yeah.

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Tanya: You know.

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Rachel: So in some ways it's so difficult to figure out what to say. But in other ways it's not like there's nothing to say other than I'm so sorry I love you. I'm here for you like that's that's all you need to say.

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Tanya: Yep, I agree.

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Tanya: So

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Tanya: regional.

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Tanya: where can the audience go to find you? And can you also tell us about the online courses you offer, as well as share about your flexive gold journal, which I'm obsessed with.

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Rachel: Oh, thank you. So my podcast is 3 and 30 takeaways for moms. You can find it in any podcast app and it's 3 takeaways in 30 min. That's why it's called 3 and 30 and

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Rachel: I have a couple of online courses. I have an On demand audio course. You can buy that anytime all year long, called Declutter. Your motherhood. That helps you to really get clear on

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Rachel: the mental load that you're carrying the shoulds you're carrying and really declutter it like you would a closet.

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Rachel: And then I have a 9 month long program for women that only opens once a year called self assured motherhood which I mentioned in this earlier in this conversation. So all of that can be found on my website 3 and 30 podcast com

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Rachel: and then the flexive Gold journal which I am also obsessed with. So I'm so glad that you are, too. It's just.

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Tanya: I love it.

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Rachel: Oh, yeah, it's just a beautiful journal where you get to write down one golden moment that you experience with your kids each day, and it's a way to train your brain to look for the good and to notice it while it's happening. And this practice has changed my life. And so it's really fun for me to get to see it changing other women's lives as well.

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Tanya: Yeah. And it's a 3 year journal, too, and I love that. You can come back the next year like, I love reading

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Tanya: what I wrote in the years prior.

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Rachel: I know so fun.

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Tanya: That's my favorite. Well, thank you again so much, Rachel, for taking the time to come on. I know you've you're already established like you've been doing this for 6, is it? Has it been 6 years.

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Rachel: It's.

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Tanya: No.

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Rachel: 7 years.

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Tanya: 7.

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Rachel: 7 years.

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Tanya: 400 episodes.

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Rachel: Outs. We were just.

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Tanya: 400. Yeah.

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Rachel: We were just talking before we started recording 400 episodes. It's a lot.

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Tanya: Amazing, amazing. And you all I've talked about 3 and 30

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Tanya: so many times. If you've been listening those pockets for a while, I can't recommend it enough.

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Tanya: Definitely go check it out if you haven't already.

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Tanya: I've learned so much from her, and I feel like Rachel. You're such an amazing storyteller.

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Rachel: Oh!

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Tanya: I, yeah, so thank you. Thank you so much for your time and for your wisdom. And

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Tanya: yeah, I hope everybody comes

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Tanya: and listens to your podcast and maybe checks out the self-assured motherhood course that you have to offer and decluttering the motherhood and the Flex of Gold journal, too.

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Rachel: Well, thank you. Thank you so much for having me. Tanya.

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Tanya: Oh, thank you! Take care! I'll talk to you soon.